Environmentalists: Global Warming Trumps NIMBYism
Posted by Glenn on January 17, 2006 - 12:38pm in The Oil Drum: Local
I am heartened to see a report in Grist To John so many environmental groups taking on Robert Kennedy Jr's NIMBY opposition to wind power off the coast of Cape Cod. RFK Jr has been a prominent attorney for the Natural Resource Defense Council and has framed this issue as industry versus natural preservation:
"Some places should be off limits to any sort of industrial development. I wouldn't build a wind farm in Yosemite National Park. Nor would I build one on Nantucket Sound ... All of us need periodically to experience wilderness to renew our spirits and reconnect ourselves to the common history of our nation, humanity, and to God."
However, his continued vocal opposition to the proposed 420 Megawatt wind project has forced a near civil war among environmentalists. However it seems that RFK Jr is being increasingly isolated on this issue as the alarm over global warming forces a long overdue prioritization within the environmental movement.
The best expression of the environmental movement's new tough love attitude was this:
Passacantando, executive director of Greenpeace USA, the debate comes down to weighing local NIMBY concerns against global climate concerns. "I respect people who wage NIMBY battles -- the environmental movement was founded on people protecting their local, sacred areas," he said. "But today, solving the climate crisis has become so urgent that it trumps NIMBYism. It's as simple as that."
This is a milestone for the environmental movement. It shows a new maturity to prioritize clean renewable energy production over NIMBY opposition even within their own ranks.
http://www.uic.com.au/nip75.htm
We've barely scratched the surface, literally, of the crustal uranium resource.
The 50 years of reserve figure is actually very high for a metal - a typical number is ten years or about the time it takes to explore, define, and bring to production an ore body. The economics are, why spend money on exploration when there's a glut on the market? Uranium had had a volitile market so experienced significant exploration overshoot during the last boom market.
Uranium is still a very new article of commerce - we're just on the toe of extraction.
Also, given its high energy density (about 100,000,000 times that of carbon on a per atom basis), very low concentrations can have a positive EROEI.
And once uranium gets expensive, there is three times as much thorium to be had.
Overall, in my analysis, wind power is a symbolic gesture and little more.
Of course locals oppose them - they suffer the real discomfort today against highly theoritical, speculative, and tenuous benefits supposedly decades in the future.
The more the environmental movement bullies local people into accepting windmills, the more people will examine the justifications for them. The debate also has served to highlight the hypocracy of the environmentalists and show them as elitists who proscribe remedies for others that they would not accept themselves.
I think most people will, with rational consideration of their costs, find windmills wanting. The environmental movement will be the political loser.
As to nuclear power plants, regulations require restoration of shutdown sites to "greenfield" conditions. In any case, a nuclear power plant produces much, much more power over its lifetime per unit area compared to windmills.
I will grant that tearing down windmills is much cheaper. Are the owners required, like nuclear power plant owners, to establish and fund a trust fund for decommissioning?
How about tax law changes removing tax credits and incentives. Maybe a change in accounting depreciation schedules? How about competitive alternatives?
Here in California, we're littered with rusting, inoperable, unproductive windmills. I saw a photo from New Zealand on this site of the same.
Someone has to pay to remove these eyesores - a rule requiring a decommisioning reserve or bond would be appropriate.
First,
What world do you live in? Energy production has been subsidized in one form or another since the beginning of the coal era. And at 4 to 5 cents kwh wind is pretty darn cheap, certainly more so than 10 cent gas.
Second,
Please make your "rational" arguement.
First, wind is undispatchable - the blows when it wants and if it blows too slow or too fast, no electricity is delivered. That means that the system has to maintain spinning reserve ready and able to pick up all the wind output - that costs money and wastes other generation assets' fixed costs.
Second, the costs of wind power are hidden from the price through extensive goverment incentives - production credits, accelerated depreciation, tax rebates, premimum price structures.
The refurbishment of windmills had to await the energy bill which restored some of the government subsidies to make the equipment worth maintaining.
Corporate America knows corporate welfare and windmills are just another version.
At best wind is worth the fuel NOT burned in fossil plants less the loss of efficiency from those plants from running at part-load.
Yes, low cost, reliable energy production has been encouraged by smart governments for many years. Why? That low cost power has a very high multiplier in the general economy so a wise government does what it can to keep the price down (but not subsidized). For nuclear power, the initiatl R&D investment has become a huge cash cow for governments at all levels.
I don't think windmills offer any advantages in our energy system, certainly not enough to justify their current popularity with politicians. There might be a place for 5 to 10% of system capacity for wind but that still might not make it worthwhile.
Indeed, which means everything you say about how an electricity system can run should be taken with a great deal of salt . Acutally wind is quite reliable, where ever you set up the turbines the wind blows during certain weather patterns, so you could actually depend on generation depending on whatever the weather pattern is. Just like solar, for example in California the differnce between off peak of 28 thousand mw and peak 45 thousand mw is the sun. No sun, no 45 thousand mw peak, so CA today could build 20 thousand mw of PV that would be completely dependable. Of course for an industy which has run the grid the exact same way for 70 years and all its great minds tell you there is no other way, wind and solar are "undispatchable."
But now that you revealed your in the electric business tell me which part of it your in that can speak so haughtily about subsidies, the whole damn industry from generation to wires has been subsidized for seventy years!
Boy, 5 to 10%, those are pretty good energy industry numbers only a wiggle room of 100%. What would the numbers be on an industy that could supply 10% of US generation? Say 30 - 40 billion a year. No one would to invest in that.
I've been around politics for many years and energy for a decade and I've never seen more bullshit anywhere than in the energy world.
You expect our neighbors to entrust their electricity supplies to anyone OTHER than experienced professionals?
Come on down and we'll let you do some 500,000 volt switchgear maintenance BARE HANDED. Or maybe move some spent nuclear fuel. How about lighting off a gas-fired boiler - know what you have to do to keep it from blowing up in your face? Fix a live 2,000 pounds per square inch superheated steam leak? Meter reading is something you might be able to pick up quickly - you can read an electric meter, can't you? From 20 feet? Afraid of dogs? Not afraid of heights? Want to you climb a power pole? In an ice storm?
Not the hands-on type? OK, let's see you raise $3 billion in bonds for new generation. How about applying for a California Air Resources Board pollution discharge permit? Buy all the rights-of-way for a new transmission line? Place some straddles for natural gas purchases next winter?
OK, maybe you're a people person. How about answering the phones next time we have an earthquake or a hurricane? Want to negotiate with the boilermakers
Yes, come on down, smartass. You'll either be dead or under criminal indictment before lunch.
Unfortunately, you'll probably cause a power outage and we'll get the blame for letting an unexperienced dilettante touch the equipment.
The engineers generally know more about what they are doing than the directors, but the directors hire the CEO. Now if the engineers hired the CEO...Or the linemen...but that's not going to happen, ever.
There is seldom a single investor with enough shares to influence the board or demand outside representation (in most cases and maybe its changing a bit). Look at the outside directors and they are usually elderly socialite do-gooders.
Organizationally, a traditional electric utility resembles the Communist Party of the USSR - they had their own internal leadership selection processes and a monopoly on power. They did have to have a foreign policy - ie lobbyists in the state capital.
The one I worked for started downhill when the engineer-CEO retired and they hired this slick San Francisco lawyer to be the new boss. What a diaster.
Remind me again how much it costs to decommission a nuclear power plant? How many existing plants have adequate reserves set aside for decommissioning plants? How much of the balance are taxpayers going to get stuck paying for?
Here's is a detailed breakdown of nuclear costs against an equivalent output of LNG:
http://www.energypulse.net/centers/article/article_display.cfm?a_id=623
The decommisioning trust fund annual charges are chump change.
Glad to straighten you out - no thank yous required.
If people want to preserve the pristine condition (I didn't see any pristine conditions wider than a couple hundred yards) maybe they should make it an auto free zone. I remember the traffic as busy but not as bad as at the North Carolina beach.
I also have to chime in here on the specific issue of people not liking the appearance of turbines. I just don't understand that. I think they're beautiful and minimalist, and look like kinetic works of art when turning. I strongly suspect that in years to come people will see both horizontal- and vertical-axis turbines (the latter will pop up on schools, municipal buildings, shopping malls, etc.) as signs of progress and intelligent stewardship, not to mention just plain attractive.
A Bridge That Has Nowhere Left to Go
By PATRICK McGEEHAN
Published: January 17, 2006
The Tappan Zee Bridge, the most critical transportation link across the Hudson River north of New York City, is not even half as old as the Brooklyn Bridge, but its warranty has already expired.
Started on the cheap during the Korean War, the Tappan Zee was deliberately built to last just 50 years. It passed that milestone last month, just days after transportation planners began gathering public advice about how to fix or replace it.
...
The New York State Thruway Authority, which owns the 3.1-mile-long bridge carrying the Thruway over the Hudson, has said that the deck, some structural steel, the concrete walkway and electrical systems have "deteriorated significantly." The authority plans to spend more than $100 million next year just to patch the bridge's holes and replace some of its corroded steel, a process sure to make travel even slower for commuters.
...
The bridge, which cost just $81 million - the equivalent of about $550 million today - was built using a naval construction technique that incorporated a set of hollow concrete caissons to support the main span.
Unlike other bridges in the region - The Brooklyn Bridge is 122 years old, and the George Washington Bridge will turn 75 this year - the Tappan Zee was not built to last, because of wartime pressures, according to Ramesh Mehta, the divisional director of the Thruway Authority in charge of the southern Hudson Valley.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/nyregion/17tappan.html?8hpib
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05363/629440.stm
Simple. The natural route would have bisected Kikjuit, the baronial Rockefeller family compound in Pocantico Hills. Back in the 1950s, when New York was planning I-87 (aka, the New York State Thruway) a single, powerful family had the power to block that sort of thing. NIMBY, indeed!
As for the placement of the Tappen Zee Bridge, I agree they probably could have placed it at a narrower point in the river, but if they moved it 100 miles to the north, you're talking about putting the bridge north of the westchester border. That is really far north, it would make the bridge useless for many people. If they wanted to get into southern westchester from the middle parts of Rockland county, it would be much easier for them to drive down to the GWB and then up into Westchester through the city, just adding to the already horrible traffic in that area. The same thing goes for people wanting to travel from New Jersey to Westchester or points further east.