“Of all races in an advanced stage of civilization, the American is the least accessible to long views… Always and everywhere in a hurry to get rich, he does not give a thought to remote consequences; he sees only present advantages… He does not remember, he does not feel, he lives in a materialist dream.”
—Moiseide Ostrogorski (1902, 302-303)
I recently realised I'm drinking TOD kool aid way too much and I'd like to rebalance myself a little ;-)
Also, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4599096.stm is a story about the Ukraine cabinet being sacked over the recent gas supply problems:
Ukraine's parliament has voted in favour of sacking the government over its recent gas deal with Russia.
A no-confidence vote was backed by 250 of the assembly's 450 deputies - but the president has asked his lawyers to check if the move is constitutional.
SO you're in denial about peak oil??
Any "movement" can attract followers who become too zealous. For instance, I use macs and love them, but I know that I'd rather use a linux box for a server, and I accept my wife prefers windows. I know people who would use the mac for everything, force their wife to use the mac, and vehemently shout down anyone who says anything otherwise.
I'm an atheist. I was raised Christian and find Jesus to be very inspirational. Simply because I don't believe the more supernatural parts of the bible doesn't mean I discard the whole thing.
I'm just trying to point out that we should be truly 'fair and balanced'. Not to be politically correct but to be fair to ourselves.
Personally I'm completely convinced we've passed most of the peaks in various oil regions and we're going to have a very turbulent 20 years. That doesn't stop me seeking out other opinions though.
As an aside, I work in solar cell industry, and I come across numerous pro-solar groups which are very ideologically isolated. They have 'conventional wisdoms' and phrases so often repeated that no one questions them anymore. Some close-minded political ideologies have radicalized solar cells and view solar cells as if they were part of a communist revolution, literally giving power to the people and overthrowing the tyrany and pollution of corporate utilities, ushering in an age of harmonious co-existance with each other and the planet (think Berkeley, CA). They reinforce each other's views through certain web sites and new groups which never challenge their own views and deeply held assumptions. The pseudo-communist view of solar cells is ironic, since I, and other solar businesses, are tapping into venture capital and other capitalist institutions to fund, what we hope will grow into large profitable corporations. We deal with such un-harmonious things like business plans, return on investment, fiance rates, capital depreciation, etc.
About the only thing I think we can really predict is turbulence and lots of it. The problem with predictions is that they are, at best, really crude compared to the complexity of the system we attempt to model. I'm not saying they aren't a worthwhile effort - just that we shouldn't take them for gospel. And I don't think most of us here do.
I think the ultimate irony and a likely outcome would be the discovery and mining of vast new oil reservoirs under the Arctic Ocean due to melting of the ice caused by global warming. We already know its a good candidate given the success at Prudhoe Bay.
If we discover another 1GB of reserves up north then the question will become how fast can that oil be extracted. Perhaps such a discovery coupled with relatively modest extraction rates could be a good thing since it would give us more time to transition to whatever comes next.
I'd be much happier if we called what's happening now the age of "expensive energy" rather than "peak oil." It would resonate with a greater audience because I think almost everyone agrees that the cheap energy has been harvested. The likelihood of finding another oil field like Ghawar with low extraction costs at high volume is essentially zip. We now climb the price curve. China has reduced labor costs for production to zero so the cost of energy has to become the primary factor in the price of finished goods.
So if we just batten down the hatches, put up the storm shutters and hang on tight, the hurricane will pass over and we can start the clean up and everything will be alright again?
No, this is not some incident we have to survive. This will be a fundamental change in the way we live. There is no other side to the problems of peak. The question is what new kind of life, new kind of economy, new kind of society will we create. And this is going to take a bit longer than 20 years.
The big question is the timing, and I know I don't have the answers. I know I could be quite mistaken in the assumptions I have arrived at, regardless of how convinced I am. The specter of the Y2K doomsayers I laughed at always hovers over my head! All I can do is try to stay educated and be ready and willing to change direction. The internet may provide too much positive feedback, but then the "news" provides none. So we're left to search out the truth as best we can. I find that overall, this is the best way, as it forces us to make decisions on our own, while the alternative is blind acceptance of the propaganda. Reading the arguments from the opposing side of the argument is valuable - but it can be hard to wade through to find ones of value.
So a proposal - TOD should post links to articles/discussions of opposing/contrary opinion, but limited to well reasoned and rational ones. It could be a section like the "Peak Oil Primers", or a defined part of the "Blogroll". This would reinforce the reality of TOD as I see it, which is that it is a balanced discussion of people trying to learn and understand, not mindless ideological preaching.
The Y2K problem was real and a huge amount of IT work was done to update software. But the doomsayers had indeed wrong. The Peak Oil is a real problem, but the "Petrocollapse" people are just phoney doomsayers. IT people could assess the Y2K quite correctly, so can the oil people assess the Peak Oil. There is no way to dismiss the energy problems, but the real challenge is to have a realistic view on them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Global Petroleum Markets -
With this January Outlook, EIA's assessment of world oil market balances is
extended to 2007. World oil demand growth is expected to increase from 1.2
million barrels per day (bbl/d) in 2005 to 1.6 million bbl/d in 2006, largely
because U.S. demand is projected to recover from a net decline in 2005 to show
growth of 410,000 bbl/d in 2006. Demand growth is projected to increase further
to 1.9 million bbl/d in 2007 as demand picks up because of economic growth in
developing Asian countries (excluding China). Other Asian growth had slowed
because of subsidy cuts in countries such as Indonesia and Thailand. Chinese
demand growth is projected to stay on its overall annual trend of about 500,000
bbl/d. OECD demand growth outside the United States is expected to remain low.
However, despite this strong projected growth in demand, world spare oil
production capacity is projected to increase during 2006 and 2007 as non-OPEC and
OPEC supplies increase. This increase in spare capacity is expected to ease the
current tightness in world oil markets and moderate the world oil price increases
seen during the past year. Non-OPEC supply, which grew by an average of 800,000
bbl/d between 1995-2005, is projected to grow by 900,000 bbl/d in 2006 and by 1.7
million bbl/d in 2007. This non-OPEC supply forecast hinges on the U.S. forecast,
and whether a repeat hurricane scenario next summer takes out production in the
Gulf of Mexico again.
Non-OPEC supplies are projected to show significant gains on a net basis over
2006-2007 despite continued declines in mature fields in the North Sea, Mexico,
and the Middle East, and slower growth in Russia. Outside of the United States,
net production increases for 2006 of 100,000-200,000 bbl/d are expected in the
Caspian, Canada, Angola, Russia, Brazil, and Mexico areas. Large new projects in
2007 are projected to lead to increases of almost 500,000 bbl/d in Angola, almost
400,000 bbl/d in the Caspian, over 200,000 bbl/d in Brazil, and over 200,000
bbl/d in Canada.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So much for the plateau, eh!
Hope springs eternal at the EIA.
According to the EIA 2004 Annual Energy Review, U.S. domestic petroleum production increased 9 times in the last 30 years -- in 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985 and 1991.
Got another North Slope you can pop open every 5 years in North America?
But let's look at the US data from the EIA just so we can get a clear picture of what really happened.
When we look at that chart, the North Slope event is obvious and the other few years you mention are nothing but minor blips.
So yes, production managed to increase a few times, by minor amounts aside from the North Slope production. But those variations were irrelevant to the overall trend. I'll even say that I expect production to rarely increase in North America in the coming few decades but each such increase will again be tiny and have no real impact on the general downward trend of North American production.
What is of concern is the general trend. Should Stuart have double checked his facts? Sure. But even with the minor errors, the intent of his statement, that oil production has been on a 30 year downward trend, remains true.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/contents.html
Here is an interesting graph of predicted world oil production growth, let's see if I can inline it:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/gifs/Slide9.gif
This shows the actual growth (or decline) in each region in 2005, and the predicted growth in 2006 and 2007. Of note is the U.S. which fell enormously in 2005 due to the hurricanes but is predicted to recover most of that. One odd thing is that I don't see many OPEC countries listed, and you'd think that would be important.
Another interesting datum is that they predict that the North Sea declines in Norway and the U.K. will be LESS (in absolute terms) this year due to new production coming online. Many people have commented here on the supposed collapse in North Sea production so it will be interesting to see if they can at least reduce the decline rate as the EIA predicts. They also predict that Mexico will have an increase in 2006 after coming off a declining year in 2005.
The EIA has kind of a bad name around here for over-optimistic forecasts, but predicting only one year ahead I would think they would try to be accurate. For example they are predicting higher oil and gas prices for 2006 than for 2005. So I am inclined not to write off their predictions as anti-peak oil propaganda. As I said it will be interesting to see how they do.
It would be like if I wanted to predict how the DOW was going to perform this year. What If I disregarded any news about the economy and the stocks and sectors included in the DOW. Instead I just took the average return for the last 10 years and said that was going to be what we get this year. 10 years out, no problem, just multiply by 10. 25 years out? Same thing.
In fact, in some of their anaylsis they simply come up with three lines into the future(scenarios) based on three different prices of oil. we'll just throw a whole handful of darts, we're bound to hit something.
Yes, but you would have thought that about the Exxon predictions of 3 years of production growth that they predicted in 2001 and that Stuart analysed last month. It ended up being essentially flat.
I think the EIA is making the same mistake - underestimating the decline rates.
For instance, I doubt Mexico will be able to increase production, especially if Canterell either a) declines in a similar fashion to the North Sea, or b) is hit by another Hurricane this year.
And I reckon that the UK decline rate will dwarf any new production there. One of my friends has just finished working for a swedish exploration company. He worked on a field on the UK side that was pumping 95% water!
Why would 2006 and 2007 be different from 2004 and 2005? makes no sense, prices have been increasing for at least 3 years. Oh, suddenly a bunch of domestic investment that nobody's heard of is going to come to fruition in the next two years?
ANWR isn't supposed to come online for a minimum of 5 years and more like 10.
So you can forget about 600,000 more barrels from the US and start looking somewhere else.
In other words, they are saying that the US will pump more in 2006 than they did in 2005, which is not too difficult given the huge shut-in figures from the hurricanes. But that is also assuming there are no big huricanes this year to produce similar shut-ins.
The 2007 increase is a little harder to understand, because they are saying that after recovering from last year's hurricanes, the US will then increase production still further! I would love to know where they think that's coming from. Maybe they think that ANWR will be pumping by then!
[http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/gifs/Slide10.gif]
I can't find where they are more specific about the "Gulf of Mexico Production Growth".
Maybe they're going to raise some of the sunken platforms and start them drilling again!
[http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/gifs/Slide27.gif]
Are they really expecting us to believe this crap?
Anyone know where they're getting these increases from?
and
As far as why they think U.S. production will be up in 2007, I don't know but maybe it is because there is still a certain amount of production shut-in right now in 2006 and they are figuring that that will slightly depress 2006 production from what it could be. They do note that they are assuming no major hurricane damage in 2006. However I don't think that will account for the change, so I guess they have some new GoM production in mind.
Figure 20 above must be proof to you that these guys are smoking some good shit!
Alberta oil sands will be world's largest source of new crude oil by 2010: CIBC
Alberta's oil sands will become the most important source of new oil in the world by 2010 as conventional crude dries up, CIBC World Markets says in its latest monthly report.
Alberta will sit on one of the most valuable energy sources in the world by that time, and one of the few still open to private investment, said Jeff Rubin, chief economist at CIBC World Markets, the bank's wholesale banking arm.
He added that conventional oil production around the world apparently peaked in 2004....
[see link for the rest]
The important part is the last paragraph. All of Canada's tar sands produced 270,000 bpd of liquid in 2005. That is projected to increase to ONLY 500,000 bpd in the next five years. This is at the same time that the cornucopians are adding 180 Billion barrels of this "sand" to worldwide reserves. Insanity. We need a million barrels per year, not 50,000.
Although CIBC doesn't differ much from the EIA for new supplies coming online in 2006 they make a point of saying that most new supply additions are increasingly coming from deep water, tar sands, and other non-conventional deposits, and that the new supplies increasingly will not be able to keep pace with depletion in conventional fields. The EIA is pretty silent on depletion by comparison. Consequently the CIBC price estimates are substantially higher than the EIA's for the next year. If I were out to poke a hole in the EIA predictions I'd concentrate on their depletion estimates rather than their new supply numbers.
I agree with Freddy that we haven't seen peak production yet. If the recent flattening of the global production curve were due to supply constraints we would have seen a much stronger price response. Instead I think the slack production is due to weak demand, not so much in this country, but in less affluent parts of the globe. Gasoline prices here didn't stay high enough long enough to create much of a dent in long term behavior and after a few cold weeks in Dec the winter is turning warmer than average in the US. Rather consider the effects of diesel and cooking fuel price increases where the average wage is substantially below the western world (especially in Indonesia where domestic subsidies were partially eliminated last year) - I would wager that there is a lot more conservation and fuel switching going on in the third world. I haven't seen any statistics to support this, it's just my best guess.
Remember that North America, Europe and Japan account for about half the daily oil consumption.
I remember reading somewhere that the OECD countries account for almost 60% of the daily oil consumption.
And Europe is already coping with petrol ('gas' to the US) prices double that in America, so that shows that the US, at least, can easily survive with $100-150 oil without much demand destruction.
Forecasts even the best ones are best guesses and hopes.
I got one last year from a well regarded bank on oil prices and it was wrong from day 1. It did not get any better for the other 364 days in the year past.
I just can't wait to see all that production coming on line and driving down prices. North Sea and Mexico humming along merrily disregarding decline opportunities.
Maybe we might keep this and compare it with reality in 365 days time.
Can't wait.
Smil, V. 2006. Peak oil: A catastrophist cult and complex realities. World Watch 19: 22-24.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~vsmil/pdf_pubs/WorldWatch.pdf
I don't know what to think of this guy. He's clearly a cornucopian and don't seem to be very well informed!
(* "rt" should be superscripted)
If we did that our wages would go sky high, half the jobs in America would be unfilled, and the stock market would go to 1100 instead of 11,000. After inflation, of course, it would probably go to 110,000.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0307-02.htm
But he wasn't named.
There's also this report:
http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/open-file/of00-320/of00-320.pdf
I suspect many USGS geologists know the score, or suspect it. But they're a government agency, and are subject to political considerations.
Il feel the discussion at TOD is one of the best sources available for a balanced discussion of this issue. For myself, I believe, because of it's repeated validation, that the Hubbert model is actually the less worse availabe for predicting the future.
A matter however rarely discussed is : what is the real EROEI for oil extraction at the moment ? I think that is one of the most important parameters in analyzing the near future, if we assume a plateau is coming.
Go ahead, discuss it. If it is "one of the most important parameters," then why can't you tell us what it is? Or, if you have no idea what it is how can you know it is important? I would love to discuss it. Give me some basics to work with.
In the PO theory, oil production reaches a plateau, then irreversibly declines. But at the plateau, and even before, oil becomes more difficult to recover, requiring more energy to be invested. The oil extracted is more polluted (with water for instance) or of less quality, requiring more energy for refining to maintain the flow of end products. Thus the EROEI decreases.
When individual wells are on the downslope, this decrease of EROEI is no issue when there are cheap sources of energy available (when oil is available elsewhere at low cost for energy production).
But when the world peaks, the increasing energy required for oil production will have to be paid for. In my understanding, if EROEI really decreases, even if we maintain production, this is a basic factor increasing the price of oil.
I have read elsewhere (I think it was on Matt Savinar's) that the EROEI of oil had decreased from about 15 to 7. If this is the case, and if this trend continues, then I don't see how we can maintain growth when oil peaks even with a smooth plateau. However I am not able to verify these figures because the estimates vary wildely and are not often adressed synthetically.
At $60 a barrel, some are extracting for $1 and some for $30, so every producer makes a profit of between $30-59. If the production costs go up on average, then so does the final cost. If it costs $190 to get a barrel out of the ground, but nobody is willing to pay more than $180, well then, nobody is going to extract that oil.
So the price causes pain for the consumer, but not necessarily for the producer, who will continue to invest in new production as long as they can make a profit.
As far as how much energy it takes to extract energy. Well, should be fairly simple. Oil is $60. Let's say average production costs are $10/barrel. The ratio is therefore 1-to-6. If it cost $55 to bring that same barrel to market, the ratio would be 11-12. You convert dollars to oil or BTU's and then compare.
This of course brings up the uncertainty involved with the peak oil theory, because it takes us into unexplored territory.
Peak oil says that as you slide down the backside of Hubbert's curve, no matter how much you invest, you still will not be able to pull more oil out of the ground on a year-to-year basis. But the only proof we have are situations where there was a real substitute. In 1971-2-3, US production peaked, but not in a vacuum. Saudi Oil acted as a direct substitute for the investment. When the Arab States embargoed, Iran made up the difference. The real price hardships didn't come until the early 80's with the onset of the Iran-Iraq war, but by then a worldwide recessionary environment had put the brakes on growth and the lid on oil use.
Things are different this time around. There will be no substitute aside from a massive shift to "other" forms of energy. Again, this is a liquid-fuels crisis. At what point will people not be able to pay for the investment in ultra-deepwater oil extraction? $200? $300? we just don't know yet. But if the consumer will pay $300, then the producer will invest $290 to extract it.
I mean, the real measure of energy would be the joules invested vs the joules obtained when we burn or use the endproducts. The cost of these joules are influenced by a whole number of factors so they also can cost a lot more or less in a particular situation. But, oil being by far the predominant source of energy, we can compute the number of barrels used for extracting another number of barrels (and this seems to be close to 1 barrel oil for 10 or 15 barrels at the moment).
This is also why it is so difficult to know wether the tar-sands in canada will once be a replacement solution or if deep coal mining will once be economically viable. I just don't know how much real energy (in joules or equivalent barrels) it will take to exploit these energy sources, and in the long time for oil.
Indeed we can rely only on the economic models to know how oil will be priced, but the underlying physical counterparts should be assessed to fully understand what is at hands ... IMHO.
Tar sands production is only forecast to expand to about 2 million bpd by 2010 or maybe 2015, I forget. Whatever it is, it is not going to cut it. We are going to run out of NG just cooking sand.
The world needs between 1 and 2 million bpd, every year, just to keep this Chinese-US consumer juggernaut going. reserves don't matter. If we hit a wall with new production in the next few years, nothing is going to fill the gap. Nothing. Not Biofuels, not hydrogen, not electricity, not NG, not LNG - none of the systems are in place, none of the infrastructure. We have a clueless bunch of corporate whores in Washington who have no interest but to keep the status quo. So we are left with price to somehow fix the problem.
My premise is that cost could be easily scaled to energy content if that was necessary and is a useful proxy for the amount of energy used to extract the resource.
Stuart, I assume you've read this one-- The New Pessimism about Petroleum Resources: Debunking the Hubbert Model (and Hubbert Modelers) (pdf).
Consider yourself debunked.
Michael Lynch - Disputing Peak Oil
Peak Oil is here!
I'll tell you one thing; Lynch may or may not know the truth, but he uses the mistakes that all the peak oil modelers seem to make -- namely the use of questionable statistical fitting -- as a sword to skewer themselves with. It's all self-inflicted wounds in my opinion. Lynch himself doesn't have any theories, all he has is counter-arguments, and a few are accurate. I looked up at least one obscure article that he touts in my local research library and found it empty of any theories of his own devising. Yet, he will skewer you with:
Overall, I judge that this isn't as much of a comment on peak oil, as it is an attack on the Hubbert curve...
I took a couple of hours today to debunk his creaming curve arguments here:
http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2006/01/creamed-again.html
As for the rest of his arguments, I have debunked these as well, but you have to get rid of the whole logistic or gaussian curve arguments or you will fall into his favorite tautology traps -- imposssible symmetry or causality violations.
Most of the people on TOD seem to want to hang on to their belief in the logistic formulation, and so Lynch will continue to eat their lunch, in a figurative sense. Lynch is wrong of course, but his arguments amount to a perfect framing that every right-wing political tactician would be damn proud of.
I love how you have addressed the language patterns of his arguments...
I just finished "Black Gold" and have to state that most of the anti-PO arguments are psychological and/or language patterning. The authors defiantly qualify as Korzbyski's "Psychotic Psychologists." As far as technical skills are concerned, well that is another matter.
I'm a CHE, but years ago I got a Masters in NLP, and I still look back on those days fondly...nights spent flaming each other over presuppositions and logic. Ah well, maybe one day I will find the time to get back into this...
Keep it up WHT!
Sorry for post below, I meant it to be a reply to this thread. I am new at this, so have pity...
His energy-related postings are collected at http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/energy/index.html . In particular see his three-part series showing why the evidence from oil markets is inconsistent with the more extreme and near-term Peak Oil models:
How to talk to an economist about peak oil
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/07/how_to_talk_to.html
Further discussion about economists and peak oil
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/07/further_discuss.html
Discussions with economists about peak oil: Chapter 3
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/07/discussions_wit.html
have a good one...
... Oh its there, remove the comma from the end of the Wiki word. Badly formed Wiki-linki.
Skepticism is healthy. Good question.
I think both sides of the fence suffer from the same problems. First, we really do not know what is down there under and neither do "they". Second, we are both trying to predict the future --and this is always a risky business. No one knows for sure what the future will bring. If an Armagedden size asteroid hits the Earth soon, all our worries about oil will be for naught.
Both sides of the Peak Oil debate base their position on what they consider to be "sound" logic.
I myself am a kool-aid drinker also, therefore this might be biased, but I see the anti-Peakers as basing their position on several "truths" which they hold to be unquestionable:
On the other side, we Peakers base our beliefs also on axioms that are not 100% unassailable:
Certainly the main posters to this page, Stuart, Prof Goose, etc. have done an excellent job of teaching us about the various modeling curves (Hubbert, Gaussian, etc.) and many of those curves point to an imminent Peak and substantial decline rate. But we don't know for sure.
This is an excellent mid-length piece that covers all the main topics of peak oil, including what could be interpreted as a swipe at Yergin. "Fair and balanced," with some interesting new slants on some points.
Quite refreshing to see such a good article from a big name in a mainstream publication. Hopefully there will be more exposure like this to bring the issue to the attention of the intellectual and oil-layperson.
I can't find a non-subscriber accessible version online, otherwise I would post some quotes.
http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2004/05/its-cretinism-not-creationism.html
Last year I say Ron Howard's boxing movie, The Cinderella Man, which is considered to have one of the very best depictions of the Great Depression ever shown on film. What struck me was the complete helplessness of the general population. Without work available, people in the cities just sat around waiting for the next government check, so that they could continue their subsistence level existence.
My question is how can we avoid that same fate in the future. What are the things we can do on a local level to stimulate economic activity?
This is the opposit of the local level but you do never the less have to exercise yor democracy on every level to get the best out of it.
One problem I run in to while agitating for sensible enviromental and energy policies and peak oil within my party, the opposition and to voters in general is a little roundabout. The current government and the from my point of view fairly nutty greens have done some good things and are proposing some good things. Their failures and nuttiness do however rub off on those good ideas and it gets harder to work for those ideas. :-/
Anyway, I allways start argumentation anbout what is necessery to handle peak oil by noting that we need a flexible business climate with a lot of new companies since old jobs and companies will disappear and a lot of new things must get done. If this flexibility is impossible we are doomed even if we have built a great rail network, lots of biofuel plants, new nuclear powerplants and other goodies to have when we get late peak oil energy scarcity.
Periods of rapid economic growth are optimistic and innovative. Even seemingly rigid societies (like China) are flexible when there is growth. Societies that do not have any real growth any more, like the OECD countries, or societies that are declining are not flexible. People want security above all. Governments fear the citizens. But even revolutions need optimism and growth.
In the present situation - and more in the future - it is a bad idea to break those rules and regulations that may bring some economic security fot the ordinary people. This will not help the economy, because the growth is over, no matter what. But the people will react by demanding more security and they will get it - and what follows might be something that many would really like to avoid.
He also talks about how the 3 Trillion number is nonsense, it is just changing the goal-posts by adding in non-conventional oil. Anybody who knows anything about the projected Canadian Tar/Oil-Sands production numbers knows Alberta and Suncor are not going to change much in the way of when a peak occurs.
For me, I need to keep peak-oil on a strict conventional oil/liquids-crisis-level. Nutbags like Smil don't seem to grasp this and want to make peak-oil bigger that it is so that they have a bigger target. They want to bring in the whole history of failed predictions and an overly optimistic view of human ingenuity.
Peak oil is not about this. It's straight numbers. Peak oil is simply about reaching a point where pulling the same amout of crude out of the ground as you did yesterday becomes a progressively harder task.
Skepticism is a good thing and seems to be alive and well on this site, which is much appreciated to someone like myself who is a frequent reader, but not a contributor to TOD.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/549bvymv.asp
At the recent Simmons/Kunslter symposium in Dallas, Matt Simmons opined that if we don't start today making real, concrete changes in the way we live and in the amount of energy that we consume, "Jim Kunstler will have turned out to be an optimist."
This reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago with a very close friend and neighbor. I had just found out that his daughter, who was graduating from high school and who I literally watched grow up, had been born with a birth defect. (Almost no one in the neighborhood knew this.) I won't go into personal details, but this defect required her to have several surgeries and bear a minor, life-long burden. To any outsider she seemed to lead a very normal, healthy, and happy life. My friend told me that when his daughter was born, the doctor said, "She has a birth defect, but it's only a handicap if you make it one."
In a very loose sense that's how I see our energy situation. There are many possible paths unfolding before us, all caused by the same irrefutable set of physical limitations, and no matter what we do we won't be able to completely avoid significant, ungoing pain. But if we're smart about it we can still greatly minimize the impacts of peak oil and NG.
Drudge: Climate fears, water shortages haunt Europe
By David Evans
Summary:
PARIS (Reuters) - France and Spain are ringing alarm bells over the climate, fearing a repeat of last year's drought that sparked deadly forest fires, costly crop failures and widespread water rationing in southern Europe.
Don't worry big business will clean up its act
say Bodman & ors
Read this
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/trust-firms-on-climate-say-leaders/2006/01/11/1136956242983.html
Also, sugar cane can't be grown everywhere, and the cost of labor is a big factor. However, the key problem is going to be a conflict between using land to grow food versus using land to grow fuel--especially given what looks like a global climate change. The time may come when we may literally cause people to starve to death by filling up a big SUV with ethanol.
In any case, I suspect that sugar will increasingly be traded as more of a fuel commodity than a food commodity.
From page 2:
1 tonne = 1000kg
Energy inputs for bioethanol from UK-grown sugar beets = 13,000 MJ/tonne = 13 MJ/kg (13,245 +-1181, so there's really only 2 significant digits)
Net energy in ethanol = 26.72 MJ/kg
EROI = about 2:1
What is happening in the relation between countries and are changes coupled to PO. My answer is yes changes are developing and they are driven by PO fright.
US and China have the most need of oil imports and are therefore in the centre.
Look at how chilled relations between Bush and Putin are getting - I see them prepare for a cock fight, more or less. We have the nervousness in handling the Gazprom/Ukraina conflict. Not to mention Iraq and Iran, here EU, US, Russian, Chinese and Indian interests meet in what can become an even worse conflict. Also in the old soviets in the centre of Asia there is a increasing competition to secure all oil possible - and to secure pipelines to get the oil home. In Africa much of the competition is yet to come. The south of the Americas sees the power of oil wealth and have put some heals down in the earth. Canada starts to get a wee bit uneasy having it but knowing that the wast US population will want to consume it.
None of the above is new - but all of these hot spots/areas are getting hotter and it scares me to see the process accelerating.
If the world did not see PO coming there would be no need to secure all these consumers resources in this great hurry. My conclusion is PO is eminent and the power structures are preparing in their destructive manner.
I wanted to point out that there also are other indicators besides the local gas price (crude price) that can be used to warn for upcoming PO crises. I believe that increased stress and conflicts between nations and regions competing for the resources are very clear signs that the resources are going dry.
In terms of the number of people dying in armed conflicts, the five-year period preceding World War I was one of the most peaceful periods of the 20th Century. Yet, during this same time period enormous stresses were building up among the major European powers that were finally released a cataclysmic war of unprecedented scale.
Sometimes the quieter things seem, the more dangerous they are.
First of all, TOD is my favorite site - it is concise, timely, most of the participants are civil, intelligent, witty, and on topic (with a few exceptions). But there is a limit to this formats effectiveness - once the wolf is at the door so to speak, will any of us have time to scroll threads of 500 posts, with new posts coming in before we're done reading the originals? Is there then, an upper limit to the TODIIoTODII (TheOilDrum Information Internalized over TheOilDrum Information Ingested)?
We are in the bottom of the 3rd inning of public awareness on Peak Oil- both the first and second derivatives of momentum are still positive and in our favor,(read: things havent gotten too bad yet, and everyone is still civil and openminded and eager and willing to change and adapt).
My fear is that information is so readily available and increasing so rapidly that even those of us that have grown 'new meat' as [Jay Hanson www.dieoff.org] would say, and can assimilate numerous disciplines and sundry information on a daily basis will be overwhelmed by the choices of how/where/what information we consume. Case in point - its all I can do to keep up with CERA/ Staniford/ IEA / Skrebowski Koppelaar on supply forecasts for the next few years- and this I feel is important but certainly not MOST important. And those of us that have families - how much time to spend on daily family activity vs learning/aggregating information peak oil action. Yes, we are limited by oil, but I think Peak Time might be inversely related to Peak Knowledge (and Peak Oil is will be very correlated with Peak Knowledge)
I can only imagine 2 years from now - when there is more evidence of global warming, more species decline, more talk about peak oil and decline rates, more water shortages, more people, more spam, more websites about peak oil, more requests for speaking, more natural gas stocks I want to invest in, more 'must read' books, more single women...our minds are really not adapted to handle being specialists and generalists and succeeding at both at these sorts of input levels- my fear is that the most qualified people in academia/politics/business will gradually mentally tune out due to the synthesis requirements necessary to walk in all these camps -and then we are not left with the best minds-
To make an apposite analogy - my mind is discovering new 'wells' of information every day, and this new production is outpacing my 'knowledge depeletion' (influenced by lack of use, beer, and cognitive load). Could it be that coffee, hope, novelty and camaraderie are borrowing from the second half of my mental hubbert curve?
Does anyone share this concern? Or are we internally biased to assume each of our knowledge and ability to assimilate follows the slope of an IEA oil projection...?
I too find myself overwhelmed with things to read and think about. So I take time out and do nothing just sit and stare into a dark room letting my mind wander. At times I get rested while at other times I spark on something and go along that thread of thought till that overwhelming feeling hits again.
When I look back on 2005, I can't believe what all happened to me only took one 365 day year to transpire! It seems like it was several years all rolled into one. I can just imagine what this next year will do to me, it's already started out with a bang, I spent the first 6 days of it in the Hospital with a massive life threatening blood clot in my lungs. NOT mention all the things that went on in the world in general, We get those neat little packages called history books that put everything into a few pages for 2005, but it was really a full year.
What is going to happen in the next 2 to 5 years, will it be just a foot note in a history book, or will it totally change how we see the limited future??
You raise an interesting point regarding our ability to assimilate. On the other hand, that ability is being tested as never before.
My position--and it may be too broad to allow any fruitful discussion--is that we are on a collision course with the environment at exactly the wrong moment in history. The economic model at hand is the wrong one.
Two dangerous strands are converging: Global Warming and the economic model embodied by the IMF and the United States. Despite what Americans think about their place in history, this century will not be their show.
Running parallel to these strands are two other forces: IT and the incredible explosion of knowledge in almost every area of learning. From academic disciplines, to corporations, to countries, vast amounts of information are being collected and assimilated with increasingly astonishing ease. A director of IT at a huge multinational, a friend of mine, describes to me how terabytes of data are being collected and processed...more and more this process is being automated. What is true of this corporation is true of physics, of biology, of climatology; in short, of everything man touches. IT feeds the explosion and processing of knowledge...it is driving this incredible renaissance in a self-perpetuating cycle.
Whether one set of forces will contain the other is a very big question for me. We are in a race. The next ten or twenty years will tell the story.
A while back, Stuart described the possible uses of Google Earth. IT is now allowing us to visualize massive amounts of data as never before, to see with our own eyes processes that are difficult to understand without a visual aid. I am more hopeful than you. The means are arriving in the nick of time...I hope.
Information is the gazillions of bytes zapping back and forth over the internet, and information is the rows and rows of file boxes stacked floor to ceiling in archives stretching as far as the eye can.
However, knowledge is the miniscule fraction of the above that actually seeps into one's cranium and stays there, presumable to be operated upon at some future date.
We have orders of magnitude more information than we used to, but I am less certain as to how much more knowledge we have. Semantical nit-picking? Perhaps, but I think the point must be made.
And Look it is 2006 now and I am just waiting on the edge of my seat for the next great year in storms, ahh isn't it great to live in interesting times.
Its also good to be out of the hospital, so maybe I am just happy about a lot of things right now.
Google : peak oil hoax (result : abiotic oil, gas hydrates, coal, stone age didn't end because of lack of stone etc)
I am at the point where i think Peak Oil is no longer a theory/hypothesis, but an accurate model that describes everything from Amaricain foreign politics to the production collaps in the UK and Norway.
Now that the EPA is planning on changing milage estimates
It's clear that there's been evasion of the Guzzler Tax, right?"let's say your story is that we'll be at the point we just analyzed in n years rather than 2 years. The point I wish to make is that you shouldn't expect that the oil price will stay stuck at $60 a barrel for n - 2 years, with everybody cluelessly wasting oil and ignoring the need for alternative investments along the way, and then all of a sudden jump up to $180 in year n - 2, for exactly the reasons we just discussed. Somebody would be missing a huge profit opportunity in the price jump from $60 in n - 3 years to $180 in n - 2 years. What economists would therefore expect to see under the n-year scenario would be for the oil price to rise steadily over all these n years, gradually producing greater and greater incentives for the needed conservation and the needed development of alternatives between now and year n."
Can you not apply this argument backwards? In other words, could you not apply this argument to the increase observed over the last few years, and from that deduce what the expected increase in price will be? (I don't know if this will result in an answer different from simply extrapolating the trend)
It just struck me as I read it that this is a very good description of exactly what the market was doing at the moment.
There's a concern (page 2 of the article linked to) that the supply adequacy could hinge on the gas interconnector working at capacity, but last winter the gas pressure fell to almost zero during a cold snap as the continental countries weren't passing the gas on to the UK. With supply much tighter there this year, and continental countries worried about their supplies from Russia, a cold snap in the UK could be very uncomfortable.
For a skeptic has put it through
The eye of a needle
Has sewn his clothes
And yet, has come out nude...
What's to doubt?
Oil runs out.....
They have a peak oil forum at peakoil.com with a section on dealing with psychological aspects which I found after writing my last comment above. For example the thread on "Age 26 or older. What were you thinking?" where people say when they found out about peakoil and how they had managed to not know about it beforehand, etc. would havbe been more appropriate for my comments above. Link below:
http://www.peakoil.com/forum35.html