Aangel,

No it is a joke. A poor one she says. I put her to work, but I don't pay her anything other than my company. Which is, of course, "priceless".

Jon,

Great advice. There are some restrictions on the land I own (minimal covenants) that would make it difficult to have chickens on a commercial scale. I used to have a few for generating our own eggs and this would be a virtual requirement in any future that resembles the one we are "practicing" for. I constantly get requests to add in enough chickens that I could bring eggs to the market for sale and am thinking about the best way to have a small operation for that purpose.

I am familiar with the chicken tractored poultry set up you mention. Or at least a version of it where the chicken house is built on a wagon like frame that you can pull around to different areas of the property. I know several farmers who have such setups and they work really well. An interesting side note on these movable wagons is a strange quirk of local code. These "wagons" are considered "buildings" and subject to code and restrictions on where they can be "parked". Hard to believe but I know of one farmer who is getting harassed by county authorities and neighbors over the issue.

In this county there are many ordinances/covenants that impact where and how you can conduct agricultural operations and even gardening. Many HOA's have restrictions that would make it very difficult for people to have gardens on their own property due to strict limits on fences and such. In tough times many such restrictions will be ignored of course, but in the meantime they impair the ability of folks to be more self sufficient. I have this fantasy that we pass a state law that supercedes such restrictions on the use of private property when it concerns growing food or supplementing our energy supply.

I have not looked into the miniature beef cattle. I did have a few cattle on my place for years to include the first year of the vegetable growing. I decided not to have animals of that size on a place this small. They are very destructive and requiem more time than I wanted to devote to them. You are quite correct on the need for mixed animal/vegetable production on small farms to maintain fertility and profitability. Unfortunately my operation, I think, is just too small to make it work other than with chickens or maybe just a hand full of hogs. In a manner of speaking I mimic the mixed operation when I bring to the property the composted manure from my neighbors operation or if I purchase the organic fertilizers made from composted chicken waste.

Wyo

Nate,

You touch on a very important topic for the future. If a small farmers does NOT grow an excess that he can trade and barter for goods he does not grow or manufacture himself then the system will not work. None of us are self sufficient unless we are living like the natives did on the Great Plains or in the Amazon. All of our farmer ancestors had a civilization behind them making things that the excess farm products were traded for. Everything from plows to hand tools to rifles.

How do we recreate that infrastructure. We not only need new farmers but blacksmiths. And host of other skills. In my location we are so far from having the critical mass of such skills that it is most difficult to imagine how to even get there.

I have talked with a few of the small local farmers a little about creating a CSA that was supported by a number of us small farmers. then we could each get a little of that economy of scale you speak of and thereby be a little more profitable. There just does not seem to be of us in the area yet to try that either.

Finding farm labor is a really big issue also. One almost has to have a bunkhouse or some such lodging on the farm to be able to find workers. It is far too expensive locally for farm workers to obtain outside lodging. There are some immigrants in the area who will work on farms when they cannot find construction jobs. They normally have some kind of communal living arrangements that allow them to live very cheaply. Farming is not their first choice due to the very low wages, but they are good workers. Almost all farmers I know have a low opinion of the work ethic of the summer high school and college students. But that tends to be all that is available.

The above labor issue is one that will be essential to work out for the future. As farm "families" will probably not consist of large numbers of children like they did for our ancestors (some of my ancestors have 10-13 children) we will have a labor issue to solve. Lots of "hired" men/women will be required.

Wyo

Nate,

Every fundamental tenet of modern economics will hold value on the way down, except for the exponential growth crap. These tenets (division of labour, comparable advantage, invisible hands, visible fists, public choice etc. etc.) are universally valid for all humans at all times.

Unfortunately most of the 'return to the soil' community don't understand these tenets. However, in an age of growing scarcity these basic principles will be even more important than they are today. The irony is that our societies can afford luxuries such as Jack-of-all-trades organic farming models precisely because so much wealth has been generated in the conventional economy.

There is a toytown dimension to many of these projects that always sets my bullshit detector running.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
--Heinlein, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

I agree on both counts, some specialization is needed, but that specialization has gone berserk. (doctor, it's my left toe. oh, I'm a right toe specialist -- you'll have to see somebody else.)

Not only local barter and markets, but also joint enterprises. My daughter lives on a communal farm in W Va. There's enough people to have some specialization even there. But they also do a lot of bartering with neighbors. Another advantage of the commune is that they share of lot of facilities, and therefore consume a teeny fraction of the resources that the same number would living in suburb or even a city. It's a good way of life, though maybe not to everyone's liking. But then again, the future we have to adjust to is not going to be to everyone's liking.

Jason's article (and others like it) are highly germane.

wob,

I wish you the best.

I don't know if you have already picked a location in the Denver area for your land choice or not. If you have not finalized where you will build your operation there are a number of books and on-line resources that would be very helpful in making your choice of where to live and what type of ag operation you want to pursue.

Wyo

Make sure you understand the nature of the soils you will be buying, as that is one of the greatest drivers of how well you will do as an organic farmer (unless you can bring in truckloads of good loamy soil as an option). Are they deep and rich? Or shallow and heavy? Deep heavy soils can be enriched with red clover, buckwheat, etc, so that is not an automatically disqualifying characteristic.

It depends on what you mean by "economically unsustainable." If you mean for millions of newly unemployed, yes, that's likely true. If you mean for the few people with the resources and foresight to follow his path, it does seem like he's on his way to be economically sustainable and he's likely better off by owning land and learning the skills he is than many other alternatives I can think of.

For the newly unemployed (and likely never to be employed in the same way ever again), we will definitely have to find answers that scale up.

Do you have any proposals?

Carolus,

Leasing land is a big issue as you point out. In the area where I now live it is almost out of the question. Land costs locally are astronomical. This, however, is an artificial price. Land values are based upon us being within commuting distance of the DC metro area. Big salaries in the area result in high land values for development purposes. A problem that exists in many parts of the country. But not all of them.

There are a few local vegetable farming operations that I know of that are leasing land where the lease amount is functionally being subsidized by older farmers who are semi-retired. At one location there are 3 separate farm lease operations active in addition to the one conducted by the owner. Now this is obviously unusual, but it shows what is possible. Not to mention the quality of character of the owner who will lease his land below cost in order to support the type of farming he values.

Other options in this area are where there are large properties owned by very wealthy individuals and corporations that have the land in easements which do not allow development (there is a big tax break for doing this). I know of one case where a very nice vegetable farming operation is run off of "leased" land that is under such easement.

What I am trying to say is that arrangements can be made if people make the choice to do so. A great number of our farmer ancestors did not "own" the land they lived on all their lives. They still were productive and a valuable part of society.

I also know of several farm operations that are quite distant from here that are operated by young people who learned to farm on the operations described above. They learned the trade and then moved to a less expensive part of the county and started up operations there. They own their land (well them and the bank) and are making a go of it.

One has to keep a separation between what the US looks like now and what it might look like in the future. If times get really tough there is a huge amount of farmable land within 50 miles of me that is owned by fairly wealthy people that could easily be converted to farming. In such circumstances the current economics would no longer be valid and would be replaced by something hopefully more sustainable.

Wyo

Presumably as the food situation gets worse and people producing it are more successful than others the expansion of farm lands will make it necessary to use the labor of farmhands. I guess farmhands would be the people who don't own the land but work for wages.

The people making the decisions will still be the ones with the brains. The others will be digging.

Kunstler's book World Made by Hand has an Ivy League educated farmer who controls many acres but does not do much labor with his own hands (he has a village of people living on his farm for that).

Also my own grandfather had a farm (in Sweden)and employed a few farmhands to help. I met them when I was a kid and visited. One lived in a little cottage on the borders of the farm and kept pigeons and rabbits for his own family's consumption.

Too bad that farm is gone now as I would like it!!

I'm sure your criticism is a bit harsh. And I am sure the enterprise will be successful and sustainable (given enough labour - fossil or animal).

However, you have hit the nail on the head: a viable solution for a tiny minority.

In the 1850ies, more or less 80% of humanity worked on the land, producing the food and fibers 100% needed to survive. Our culture was rich in arts and sciences.
Nowadays, 4% of humanity work the land. If the only way to survive is farming, 95% of humanity is surplus, too much, better off dead.
(I am using rhetoric license here : going way over the top in order to make a point)
What we should be aware of is that most job descriptions are absolute codswollop when it comes to putting food on the table.
I live next to a 30 story building, filled with bureaucrats, up to 50 a story. Lets say 1200 people. They're well paid, they've all got spouses in well paid (and similar) jobs. They've got cars to commute home in, suburban homes, two kids, piano an karate lessons.
The only way they touch food is through cellophane.
They earn their living from pushing paper.
And they do not have farms, and never will.
Maybe, a few lucky ones will get to work on a farm.

Another gripe : you were talking about intelligence.
Apparently, you are familiar with the gaussian bell-curve distribution of intelligence. Some are stupid, most are as smart as they are stupid, some are really smart.
A question of value is posed here : is a stupid person worth less than a smart person?
For me, the answer is no. Lots of people have mentally impaired siblings, most of those people would not consider them sub-human. Gaussian distributions exist for too many distinct human traits, such that we cannot define a clear boundary of humanity. We can define the center quite well, as we are mostly part of the center, but the boundaries are too diffuse to define. If you meet someone you don't understand, that person could just as well be much smarter as much dumber than you.
It is evident, that in times of crisis, smart individuals with good access to resources will survive better than stupid individuals with bad access. Knowing this doesn't absolve us from taking care of our less fortunate brethren.

Well you know, it doesn't take IQ, it takes backbone. I lived much the same for the last 30 years. Been through quite a few upturns and downturns. Maine, as a rule, never does well. Sometimes a little better but mostly on the low end of the scale. Knowing how to survive and prosper under those conditions is no mean feat. I do, my neighbors do, the folks in the nearest city do. No one person has the exact answer, what worked for me and my skill set, and my ability to learn skills is not quite the way other folks around me do it. Prosper probably needs definition. I do keep my eyes open on how those around me are doing it. I suspect mine is different than yours. I really don't think that has much to do with the $$ economy. I just lost $117,000, and it means little to my way of life and my ability to prosper.

Still thinking profit and loss? I'm thinking eating, having water, and keeping warm.

It's dead on zero degrees here, yup I do stay up a little later on the real cold nights to keep the fire fed. Last load will take us to the start of warming in the morning. This is firewood, I cut and split, feeding a chimney I built. Kept us warm for the last 30 years. Old plott dog is cooking his brain by the wood stove.

I suspect, by your tone, the BAU is the only way you and your loved ones will survive.

I, and many others here have taken responsibility for our lives and those we love and care for. This is not something to denigrate, and I am very glad to see posts like this on TOD.

Old, cranky, geezer, and I am enthralled with learning new things, and different ways of doing them, there isn't a day goes by, I don't learn something new. Thought is one thing, backbone another, you can do just fine if you have both. I think you might need some attention to the backbone part, Carolus.

Thank you for sharing Wyoming.

Don in Maine

Carolus Obscurus wrote: It is also incompatible with the division of labour principle, and in particular with the essential separation between brainpower and brawnpower.

I wonder if it was an American that wrote this? I'm not dragging out the patriotism card, rather, Americans in general are so thoroughly egalitarian in culture and thought (if not always in deed) it is hard to imagine them positing such an idea. Ah. Note the British spelling of labour. I sense a little old-world aristocracy in the air.

So what is this essential separation which supposes that engineers are unable to turn a wrench and a laborer is incapable of generating a new idea?

Snuffy,

Wow. I like what you have done.

Best of luck to you too.

Wyo

Is it possible that when taking your swarms to different farms for pollination, your bees might pick up Varroa mites or CCD and bring it back to your "hive central"?

Vermont,

Your approach to the labor issue is similar to what many of the farmers in my area do. We have a large farmhouse and our best option is to have live-in hired labor if we cannot find someone who can commute to the farm from where they live. I would like to share hired labor with another farmer who can provide housing, but that is also hard to find. We are reluctant to have someone live in the house with us for the obvious reasons. But if we could find the right person it would be fine with us. We would just have to know them pretty well.

I am not that familiar with Project but it is a good idea. I am right now in the process of going to a higher level of complexity in my spreadsheets. Tying them together so that they cross populate data and such. I was thinking of the best way to have the task lists pop out automatically. One annoyance I have with Excel is the limit on column numbers. I want to represent the entire 365 day year and the limit is 297. So I compress the front and back ends of the year to weeks and the rest is by the day.

Wyo

Vermont,

Your approach to the labor issue is similar to what many of the farmers in my area do. We have a large farmhouse and our best option is to have live-in hired labor if we cannot find someone who can commute to the farm from where they live. I would like to share hired labor with another farmer who can provide housing, but that is also hard to find. We are reluctant to have someone live in the house with us for the obvious reasons. But if we could find the right person it would be fine with us. We would just have to know them pretty well.

I am not that familiar with Project but it is a good idea. I am right now in the process of going to a higher level of complexity in my spreadsheets. Tying them together so that they cross populate data and such. I was thinking of the best way to have the task lists pop out automatically. One annoyance I have with Excel is the limit on column numbers. I want to represent the entire 365 day year and the limit is 297. So I compress the front and back ends of the year to weeks and the rest is by the day.

Wyo

Sir Vermont,

I was at the local historical museum a couple months back and met a 90 year old man who had lived through the Depression. At 14 he and his siblings drew straws to see who would leave the farm-- he and a brother drew the short straws. After walking 80 miles, sleeping in culverts, starving, he found "employment" on a farm with 17 milk cows. He earned room and food. He worked there two years and was given one set of coveralls. He was grateful to be fed and sheltered for 2 years.

This is in Minnesota- now a fairly wealthy state.

My point- Perhaps someone will soon be happy to have good, abundant food and a comfortable place to live.

Something I wonder might happen: more people like you folks who already have your farms going, but with more land than you can work alone, taking on partners. I.e., rather than taking on employees, taking on partners and building a sort of small community.

The idea popped into my head from my research into intentional communities, CSAs, trying to get my family - both of them (mine and my wife's) - to get off their arses, and this post/thread.

Cheers

Westexas,

You write:

[W]e are seeing wave upon wave of college graduates entering the work force with degrees that very poorly prepare them for work in a post-Peak Oil environment.

I would formulate that more radically:

[W]e are seeing wave upon wave of college graduates entering the work force with degrees that very poorly prepare them for work in any environment.

However, we live in a democratic age in which politicians who do not pander to their voters' vanity have no hope in hell of being elected. Hence such junk policies such as 'No Child Left Behind', based on the misconception that all children are equally educable provided you pour enough money into the education system.

Your proposals are, of course, plain common sense. Hence not much of a hope that they will ever be implemented.

I would like to hear of one organic farm that adequately both makes its own compost and liquid fuels.

I've been asking that question for years. I'm still waiting for an answer.

Boof,

You have a slight misunderstanding.

The ash is used for "liming" not fertilization. Different things. The micro nutrients in the ash that contribute to healthy plant growth are a positive side issue. Liming is done to change the ph of the soil to a range that is more suitable for optimum plant growth. The soil on my farm needs to have the ph raised periodically. In some parts of the US, notably the west, it is common to have to lower the ph.

Using the ash, which is generated on site, saves me having to truck in the crushed limestone. To lower the ph one uses sulfur based products. I get the firewood from which the ash comes via barter with my farmer neighbors. I clear up the trees which have blown down on their pasture fences thus saving them the work of doing it themselves. I get the wood. Fair trade and much better than having the fuel truck show up on a periodic basis.

The biochar issue (tera preta) is separate and very interesting. There is a lot to learn yet about how well it will work. Virginia Tech has been running trials with it for a few years and the results are astounding to date. Are there downsides? TO be determined. However, if this process can dramatically improve the productivity of farms like mine it will go a long way to making what I am doing as sustainable as possible. But once again we need to make sure what we are talking about. Biochar is NOT fertilizer. I am not an expert on the physical mechanism of how it works, but the beneficial effect seems to be more due to the length of time it holds the carbon compounds in the soil (hundreds of years) and the positive effect this has on the effective use of the fertilizer that is applied (via whatever form).

Perhaps someone who has more expertise in this could add a comment.

Wyo

Wyoming thank you for a fine article, thoughtful and very well done.

I come from the part of the world you are familiar with, the southwestern corner of Wyoming and eastern corner of Idaho. I've spent time in the east, and also in the south and I liked it there, especially, the rain, the heat, and the abundance of hardwoods that we lack in the west. But, alas, there were no public lands and so I was unable to roam to my hearts content, as I have done since childhood in the west. So, although I loved the big muddy rivers of the Carolinas and the rolling green hills of West Virginia, I returned to my home, and my roots, although, somehow, I wound up a bit south of the piney rocky mountains of the Wind River Range. Here I am in the middle of the high desert of the Colorado Plateau smack in the middle of south central Utah. My little homestead sits at nearly an even 7,000 feet elevation, maybe we get 4 inches of rainfall a year, the winters are cold and windy, and my growing season last year began with our last frost on June 16th, and ended with a fall frost on September 1st. Agricultural endeavours of any kind can be difficult. Here, we grow open range beef cows, and some Alfalfa to feed them between their time on summer ranges in the high country and winter ranges on the deserts during the winter months.

I am envious of your opportunity for becoming a real farmer where you can grow abundant vegetables right from the start. I've always had a kitchen garden and grew some carrots, lettuce, chard, maybe beans, and some corn. Four years ago, I came to the conclusion that hobby gardening would no longer do and began efforts to grow a serious garden given the limitations of my environment. The first issue was the soil, it's river bottom, which means, clay silt, as hard, or harder than concrete through the summer months, and incapable of growing much of anything other than Sagebrush. I've kept chickens, goats, cows, horses and mules, for years, and so, I began using the abundant organic fertilizer I have around this place, working it into the ground, spring and late fall, in an effort to make the soil good enough that it would grow a real crop. This past season, I almost had a respectable garden, although it was cut short by an early and untimely fall frost. But, I learned a lot. No more messing with tomatoes, or peppers. I'll stick with beans, beets, kales, potatoes, turnips, and corn. I've planted a bunch of Jerusalem Artichokes this fall and I'll see how they do. They're supposed to be hardy and can be harvested during the winter months. My goal for my vegetable gardening is to simply grow enough produce for myself and my two daughters and their three children if they wind up living here on my place. I think the goal is attainable.

I've built up a little metal working business that helps a lot with the bills. I make spurs for cowboys, from scratch, and with inexpensive and low quality tools. I can make $300 per week, although, I expect, my cash business will turn into more of a barter business as the present economy fades. I couldn't make a living as a farmer here, unless I got into the cow business, and that's a very expensive proposition these days.

I'm 64 years old, and the work of this place, fences, cutting hay, moving sprinklers in my fields, and all of the rest that goes with a small operation, sometimes wears me out. But, then, what else do I have to do?

I began with nothing, just a 20 acre Alfalfa field. What I have I built myself. My house is about 700 square feet, made of logs and heated with a wood stove. I have a well out back (265 feet depth for about 8 gallons of water per minute). My irrigation water for my fields comes from the creek that runs out back (we have a pond upstream a mile and a half that feeds a system of buried pipe and so we have the luxury of a pressurized irrigation system courtesy of a development grant from the US Department of Agriculture). I have a good barn for hay storage, a chicken coop, and my metal shop.

I want to be a Blacksmith, but am mystified by the art of Blacksmithing. I plan to attend a Blacksmiths School if I can swing it.

I'm fortunate to have what I have. Best from the Fremont

It seems impossible to get away from the need for several liquid fuelled machines or trucked-in inputs.

Or else unpaid labour.

This is why subsistence farmers around the world have half a dozen kids. Johnny (6) feeds the chooks, Jane (11) works the water pump, John (12) hitches up the ox to the plough and his twin Jeff (12) shovels the ox manure into a cart and then heaves it over to the vegie garden.

They're also backup main workers. After all, if it's just you and your spouse, if one of gets sick for a couple of weeks, then maybe your cow starves to death or gets ill from not being milked, or your crop goes unwatered and dies, or goes to seed.

So how about a small ride-on tractor powered by wood gas? Then you can make your char as a byproduct of fueling your tractor. I think there's an even chance we'll watch civilization collapse around us if we wait for a deus et machina solution.

I'd turn the finance questions around. After years of gardening in our backyard, we moved up to 11 acres as well. But we're one of those dreaded hobby farmers who drive our station wagon out on weekends. The goal, for us, is to slowly get this land to half pay for itself out of our food budget, in our spare time. The other benefits are recreation, storage, emergency lodging, etc. And, yes, Westexas' in-law point is valuable. My sister, who isn't well employed, has always thought it would be cool to live in a converted barn loft, which I now happen to have just in case.

I also look at "our farm" as partially an experiment in terra-preta, Fukuoka, nitrogen-fixing, woodgas/low energy, and permaculture agriculture. I think the world could use more of that kind of experiment, and I'm willing to invest some of my spare time and money working on it. I'll save the "productive" division of labor for my day job.

At about 30,000 calories, give or take, in a gallon of liquid hydrocarbons, it seems your operation is consuming nearly 30 calories of fossil fuels to produce a single calorie of food!

Good math work there, Kevin. Another nail in the coffin.

Right. Boof, Corulus et al are rightly skeptical of this as a 'solution' for the masses. It's not. Having walked in Wyoming's shoes myself (add Maui to Vermont and Wyoming!), my conclusion is that the norms of western 'civilization' are done for.

Like Wyo, I'm an engineer by education and training. I helped start up and later sold out my share of a small IT consultancy in Chicago. I bought my property in NE Maui free and clear and have no debt. The land price vis a vis agricultural usage here is silly (as per DC) but one pays for the lifestyle and climate here. Our house is tiny and doesn't need AC or heating (constant 70-80 temp and 60"-80" rainfall due to NE Trade Winds). 2.4 acres, Ag Zoning, close to small town and ocean. PIMSA is my work in progress (Pacific Island Multi Species Agro Forest). I'm drawing on BioIntensive, Permaculture, No Till - you name, my experience to date tells me no system or philosophy is perfect and you've got to be adaptable and creative.

Although the specifics for a small farm operation here in the tropics are different, the general issues and challenges Wyo outlines are spot on in my two years experience. The complexity of it has really surprised me. I now really 'get' what Pollan/Satalin refer to when they talk about the A students moving out of the farm community, with the remaining D students only capable of industrial/mono Ag work.

A critical point for me in terms of location is not just the survival thing but the overall lifestyle and community culture. Hawaii is blessed with Aloha. Don't confuse the Hawaiian Islands in general with Honolulu (like comparing Manhattan to upstate NY (and completely unsustainable)). The people in general are not so far removed the land/ocean. The mix is diverse and balanced and there is no nutty right wing persecution/fear ethos, gun culture or "religulosity" out here. People talk about isolation but in some ways that's good. The potential for renewable is of of course huge but will require political leadership. The recreational options are wonderful and free if you're into the ocean & water activities. Food & Fuel Security is THE issue.

Like some others that Wyo's post has drawn out I'm a longtime reader, first time poster. I've drawn on a childhood in Ireland/England close to farm life and have the luxury of setting this thing up full time without the need for external income. I have the educational and work ethic advantages to make this happen. I have a wonderfully adaptable or resourceful wife. We live a veggy/fish diet - all this makes me blessed for this endeavor. SO, when I think about the people I've got to know over the past 20 years living in small town UK (nr Manchester), suburban US (Dayton & Cleveland, OH) and urban US (downtown Chicago) I'm dreadfully apprehensive about the future for most. Pulling this thing off requires huge advantage and is in no way going to happen naturally or transitionally for most families. If I had a job and/or mortgage payment, I'm sure I would just be fingers crossed, placing my hope in some new political order and technological fix (i.e. denial).

Kevin,

I was reading Noizette's comment just below yours and got to thinking about this some more.

Of the gasoline I used about 750 of the 950 gallons was the truck. The truck is used 99% for off farm work. traveling to and from the farmers markets and to town for supplies, trips to other farms for one reason or another, etc.

So one could say that on-farm energy use of fuel was about 200 gallons. Most of that by far was for my little tractor that pulls the wagon I haul stuff in and the various mowers I use to cut around the beds, etc. The 2-wheeled tractor uses almost nothing. It has likely consumed less than 10 gallons the entire year. Most of the diesel use was putting fuel in borrowed tractors from the neighbors. If I borrow a tractor I put at least 5 gallons of fuel in it no matter what. Good neighbor policy.

I do not know how the calculations you mentioned for industrial ag are performed. But do they include the guys pickup when he goes to town for supplies, and all that?

It is very hard to quantify energy inputs. How much energy did it take to manufacture the million dollars of equipment or more that is found on a 2000 acre grain operation? Is that being counted? You see the problem.

Apples and oranges.

I will try hard next year to get better numbers on this aspect and then we can compare the results.

Wyo

As a suburban gardener, I have been experimenting to see what I can grow undisturbed by deer and groundhogs. About half of my garden is fenced and "patrolled" by my dogs (although consideration for my neighbors means I can't leave them out to bark all night at the deer). I have found that the deer don't touch aspargus,rhubarb, onions, most herbs, or garlic, and only turn to turnips, rutabagas, arugula and kale at the very end of the season when everything else is gone. I was surprised that they even ate most of the hot peppers I planted. So you could argue that in deer-infested areas, all you can grow is stuff most people don't like, either, but of course those unpopular root crops can keep you going a long time in the winter. I keep my fruit and nut trees protected, and have been surprised how much damage they do even to bramble fruit like raspberries. I put in on gooseberry bush this year, which I anticipate will be left well enough alone!

Bruce,

Great question. I expected it earlier.

You might be aware of Eliot Coleman's book, "The New Organic Grower"? When I was researching how I wanted to go about this experiment I consumed a lot of books on the possible methods of running a very small operation. In that book was my first exposure to the two wheeled ag equipment. As you might be aware, outside of the US there are very large numbers of this scale of equipment in use. Hundreds of thousands.

This scale of equipment is designed for the 1-5 acre intensive operations. It is very useful in confined spaces such as high tunnels and terraces and the like where larger 4 wheeled equipment has issues. Beyond 5 acres and maybe less (I am not the expert here) it makes more sense to have larger equipment. Another issue that makes the small equipment useful for myself is that when one makes the move to 4 wheel equipment and the options it presents then one has to cross the threshold beyond the one person operation. One cannot take advantage of many of the benefits of the larger equipment unless they have multiple people. Tractor assisted transplanting for instance.

I have neighbors who use both 4-wheeled equipment and also have 2 of the 2-wheeled machines.

This equipment is not the junk that is sold by DR and Toro, etc. It is designed to full commercial ag standards. The life spans of the diesels (it will run on straight vegetable oil btw) use in this equipment is circa 4000 hours of operation. Once you use the various implements you quickly realize that this is real equipment. And it is relatively inexpensive (part of the experiment again) and thus something that a beginning farmer can contemplate when they have limited resources. A full set of brand new equipment, including all the implements, at this scale would not run to even $15,000. The smallest Kubota that is suitable for 5 acre vegetable operations costs more than that new. And then there are the implements.

I ordered an upgrade of this type of equipment this fall. I am getting a root digger (potato digger), a cultivating bar with various kinds of attachments, a special modification that will help me with hilling and use of plastic mulch should I choose that route. There are lots of possibilities with this equipment. If you attach it to a wagon you now have 4-wheel capability for hauling. The maximum speed of my tractor is 10 mph. I could actually haul a significant weight long distances should that be required. In some parts of the world they are used this way on the rural roads. Look up Earth Tools on the net and peruse their catalog to see the possibilities.

Now what might work for me will not necessarily work for you. That is why there are so many different equipment choices. If you are baling hay and bartering it then you would not be able to put up enough with the 2-wheeled equipment to make that work. BTW there is a full of sickle bar mower, rake and baler for this equipment. But it is more sized for putting up bales for ones own horses or something like that.

Wyo

More than anything else, this is what ought to be subsidized -- not bailouts for the banks, hedge funds, etc. That plus rebuilding small towns that are agriculture based.

This would help prevent starvation and give millions of people who are facing unemployment a way to make a living. There would need to be a lot of guidance from knowledgeable people.

But you are again right -- it won't happen without a revolution. It amounts to removing a huge number of people from the "market system". Even when unemployed, one is still part of the market system, putting downward pressure on wages if nothing else.

What makes you even think that the majority of the people living in the city would even be willing to go out and get their hands dirty working the land and pulling weeds in the hot sun? My guess is that 80-90% of them would rather starve to death than go out and do manual labor in the sun/wind/rain. Expect massive riots demanding food, but no-one volunteering to help grow it.

My family has owned my farm for over 50 years and I have lived here exclusively for the last 28 years. By and large I can not even get people I know from the city to drive the 6-10 miles to the farm to visit - because it is - too: Far, Hot, Buggy, Humid, BORING, etc....... When these people want to come out to work to grow vegetables I'll be growing 300 bu per acre corn in a rock quarry.

Sarbo,

My only question is: how does a non-wealthy person become a farmer? Land is now too expensive for anyone to service the debt with farm income.

There are many answers to this question. They can range from your comments about revolution (has happened before and will again I imagine), to Lord/serf, to tenant farming, and all the other arrangements which mankind has used in the past. There is what one can do today and there is what will come tomorrow and the next day. One of the reasons I am working on this little experiment is to help answer the questions of how we can prepare for the future.

Today it is possible to start with no assets and work your way into an ownership of a small farming operation. I am aware of some people who have done this in our current economy. And they primarily did it by farming and not working in the office towers to get the money. Not saying it is easy or anything like that. It is hard. But commitment can take one a long way.

There are many others who farm who do not own land. Every month you see help wanted adds in the small farm magazines looking for experienced organic farmers to manage and run sizable farming operations. There are farmers who have made it a profession to operate such farms without owning them. Some are skilled enough that they are like professional troubleshooters who are hired to fix up a failing operation and then they move onto the next one after getting the operation up and running efficiently again.

As a society we are very wrapped up in "ownership". But the issue to me is not really ownership it is control. The control you have over your life and your perception of your life's value. For many this question can only be answered one way. But I do not believe it is that simple. You do not have to own land to be a farmer and definitely you do not need it to live a valuable life. Most of our ancestors did not own the land that they farmed. Even in America most farmers did not own their own land until we moved over the Appalachians into the mid-west.

What does the future hold? I do not know. But I firmly believe that we face tremendous risks. My professional life was centered around determining what the downside risks to trying to achieve a particular goal were. And how to prepare for them. In most cases this advance preparation will result in overcoming the risks and dealing with them successfully when they occur. In the world of extremes, to those who have spent much time there, it is an unstated truism that optimists die young. The deliberate pessimist is not a person with a negative attitude, but rather a pragmatist who has survived long enough to learn to be prepared.

We need to be prepared should the future world of declining energy supplies lead to a dramatic downsizing of our way of life. If you want to be a farmer then be one. You will have the satisfaction of doing something you find valuable and others cannot do without. And you will simultaneously be preparing for possible adverse events. Don't worry about who owns the land now as it might not be of significance in the future anyway. If the future goes to the "dieoff" scenario then no one's choices work out anyway. I think that West Texas's ELP advise is as spot on as one can be.

Wyo

The average farm owner in the United States is about 60. They are now thinking about their legacy, retiring or cutting back, and want to pass on their land and business to younger people. A program called Farm Link brings such interested parties together.

Here's the site for California, but most states seem to have one:

http://www.californiafarmlink.org/joomla/index.php

Here is how my good friend found his way into ranching. As a teenager he worked as a Cowboy up in the Booby Hole where he learned the basics of how to get along with cattle. When he turned 21 he signed up for the good Farrier's School in Oklahoma and after ten weeks of schooling he returned to the county and hung out his shingle as a Farrier. He worked hard shoeing horses, saved his money, and married a gal who went to Nurses School and became a RN. She works at the County Hospital. He leased some pasture and some hay ground and began buying 2 year old heifers from his neighbors. One here, one there. He fed them rained on hay, and whatever he could grow on his leased ground. He found himself an old bailer and swather for a couple of thousand bucks. He now has a herd of 75 mother cows and he owns some of his ground for pasture and hay. He still shoes 8 to 10 horses a day, six days a week and he's now 33 years old. His next step will be to buy an allotment for summer range on the mountain and then one for winter range in the desert. The thing about cows is they're like four legged piggy banks as long as you keep it simple. If you go out and buy a big piece of pasture for $2500 an acre, a brand new swather and baler with a new bale wagon, you'll never make it unless you've got very deep pockets. But, if you do it the old fashioned way with open range cattle, you have a pretty good chance if you are willing to work real hard. Being a Farrier pays good money these days in rural areas where not much pays worth a damn. With a herd of 300 cows you can make a decent living and grow wealthy on your hard assets, but your wife ought to keep her job in town just in case. Best from the Fremont

OMG,

We have talked a fair amount about the mixed animal/crop issue. It is obviously a more sustainable structure in the ideal. For our situation we think that a limited number of laying hens would make the most sense as we could easily market the excess eggs and they would be available for our consumption eventually (homemade chicken soup- they are not much good for anything else). We also think that as our farm is currently configured we could have a few sheep. But we will not likely do anything but the chickens. I will sort of plan on growing the vegetable, fruit tree and berry production until it max's out the available land.

In terms of self sufficiency (not for sale) our pond is full of fish and turtles. We could easily satisfy any meat consumption from the pond and via the chickens. I could even stab a few of the obnoxious deer from time to time.

I fully agree with you on your guess that the future will be a combination of large mono culture cropping operations (using chemicals and lots of diesel) and smaller scale organically oriented vegetable/fruit operations. This makes perfect sense to me. With our large populations we will need vast amounts of the staples and they will command the infrastructure to make it happen. I do not see a future where vegetables from California are trucked to Virginia for consumption. Virginia can grow its own and if it won't then it does not get any. The energy equation of the future just does not seem balanced to support a great many of the practices we are involved in as a civilization right now. I refuse to buy any produce in the grocery store that comes from outside the US as I do not believe it is responsible to be wasting energy by shipping it such distances. IF we don't ship grains around the world there is mass starvation. We can get by just fine without grapes from Chile or apples from South Africa and New Zealand.

I like your wind idea but it would not work at my farm. I live in the lee of the mountain and we just do not have much wind at all. Even in big storms our winds are much less than they are even a 1/2 mile away.

I like your ideas about having a system to order your CSA package for the week and use the public transport system for delivery. That would seem a natural evolution in areas where there is an infrastructure to support it. I wonder if that is being contemplated anywhere like California or New York city. In my area there is no public transport until ones gets to the city itself (35-50 miles). What I would like to see is a group of organically oriented (not necessarily certified as I do not think that is all that important) get together and for a group CSA. The variety and volume that could be generated, while maintaining a small scale operation, would seem to have some interesting advantages. Such an organization could even contract with a large "city" entity just to supply them. Say one of the 20 story condo's in the city contracted to have the farms supply it with CSA shares. There could be one or two deliveries a week with a quick drop off and departure. Efficient and practical. There are so many ideas that have promise.

WNC,

Your ideas are very sound and I think that the types of arrangements you mention have real possibilities.

The hard part is reaching the critical mass that it takes to create them. Both on the customer and farmer end of things.

Unfortunately the farmers are in general so burdened with work that the formation of such arrangements will likely have to come from the customer end. In time maybe folks will step forward to help shepherd the creation of those types of arrangements.

Wyo

Here's the link to a website with software for a food co-op/buyer's club: http://locallygrown.net/ It's a way to connect sellers and buyers via an online site.

Check out the video at the site for a fuller explanation. I think it sounds brilliant and it's something a group of us are looking into implementing in my town.

Last New Years Eve at my house we had a small party with friends. The local food bug had gotten into a lot of people, but it was so inconvenient. Local farms were not connected well to local stores and most consumers didn't have ready access to their food.

We brainstormed and a friend who just had a baby and wanted some part time work where she could set her own schedule (mostly) decided to start a "CSA type" operation only she would connect interested consumers to the various farmers and arrange for pick up and delivery to a central location in town, which happens to be my farm. So while I am doing veggies in town, she is bringing in meats, cheese, oils, herbs, eggs, milk, grains, and even some baked goods like pies (which she does herself). Every 6 months she has people sign up for what they want, they pay up front, and then she pays the farmers.

Easy to replicate something like this.

Billy,

My issues with the cows are more due to my having to keep them on only a few acres as I am using the rest for other purposes. They do tear things up though just do to their size and general clunkheadedness.

I probably know the farmer you got your beef from. Neighbors!

I agree if you are looking just to provide food for your own families survival then the 2-wheeled tractors and implements make far more sense than the larger versions. Much lower cost and maintenance. Much easier to do the work on yourself.

Wyo

Another great reference is "5 Acres and Independence" M.G. Kains. I've referred to it for the last 30 years. Some info is dated, but some is just timeless.

Don in Maine

Will,

I bet we are close. I live near Round Hill.

I need one of those dogs of yours to chase off the deer!

Wyo

Biker,

I see your comments and those from folks like Airdale and think of the things you know how to do and that we need you teaching people. As Jason pointed out up thread, the average farmer in the US is almost 60. I am years younger than average. I have a friend who's father is 75 and still farms full time.

We deperately need to be training the replacements. It does not take a genius to figure out we have a real problem relating to having enough farmers in the near future. Say what you will, but farming is the single most important occupation there is.

If we don't have the critical mass of experience teaching the beginners then we are really in trouble.

Get those neighbors to work!

But I do think that lots of people, urban and suburban, are going to be gardening in their yards for all that they are worth. This will be especially true for those who have lost jobs, and can't find work.

Some will, definitely.

But many without jobs will lose their homes and thus will not be able to garden. I guess that there will be at least a twenty year period when the cost structure of living in our society is still high (high land prices, high property taxes, etc.) but the means to service the cost (i.e. a job income) is too low or missing entirely.

As Orlov points out, when the SU imploded largely people weren't kicked out of where they lived because they didn't own their homes. The state did. Here, where we are set up well for a high-energy (i.e. rich) society the transition to a low-energy (i.e. poor) society will send many people to live on the street, wandering on foot because public transport will largely be missing. And that's because when almost everyone owned cars we didn't build it.

Earl,

I am hardly the expert to give advice.

If I were you I would find a local farming expert (maybe your extension service?) and have them look at your land and discuss with you the possibilities of what your best options are. Every situation is unique and I do not know your situation.

Wyo

Earl,

Sounds sort of similar to what folks do with the chicken houses on wheels.

Make sure that they are far enough from the vegetables that heavy rains etc cannot wash the waste into your vegetable plot. You don't want to get sick. If I remember correctly the limit of time between application of raw manure on crop land and harvest for consumption is around 180 days.

Wyo

Boof,

It is very possible that energy supplies, like diesel from crude oil, will be very restricted in the future. But adapting to that scenario is possible. By the time we reach depletion of that scale the entire world will have changed in many ways. But we can adapt if we plan for it.

If we don't plan then we get bit big time. I always keep in mind that our ancestors survived and they lived lives much more rigorous than ours. That ability is still within us. We just have to give it time to reemerge.

To give a little story that describes what I am trying to say. A few years ago in my early 50's I went on vacation and hiked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine. I noticed that my whole reaction to the world changed as I spent all day every day in the woods. When I talked to other hikers doing the same thing they described the same result. An example: almost everyone when they start are very clumsy and trip a lot, twist ankles etc. After a couple of months it just hardly ever happens. When you step on a round rock under the leaves instead of twisting your ankle and falling down you have relearned to so quickly unweight the foot that you hardly even notice that it started to happen. You just wobble a little and move on, rather than picking yourself up off the ground. Your hearing changes, your perception of speed (I still drive much slower now than I used too). Many other old skills from our past surface.

Given time and the proper tools we will adapt. If we deny the problems and stick our heads in the sand all bets are off.

Paul,

We are just using different terminology. When I say high tunnel I think I mean the same thing you do when you say hoop house.

Wyo

Yes, I agree with your comments, it is more-or-less what I'm doing. I'm building up potential capacity, learning techniques and acquiring equipment. But, I'm only producing for family and friends, giving away surplus produce. It just isn't worth going into business just yet with the burden of taxes, regulations and associated cost of sales. I'm not even going to attempt to compete with the ridiculously low prices for farm produce currently in evidence.

Micro-farming for me is a safety net for when the current system fails. And when it does fail, who you know will probably be more important than how much you have in the bank. So building a local support network is more important to me than building a market for my produce.

Hi Robin,

Sorry, I guess I should have put a full list of everything I have been growing.

I grew 2 types of potatoes last year and will have 3 in 2009. By weight the biggest crops I produce are tomatoes, squash (winter & summer), potatoes and onions. I also grew about 100 lbs of dry beans last year and intend to harvest about 200-250 lb of them in 2009. All quantities will be at least double the 2008 amounts if I don't kill everything.

Wyo

Deccles,

It sounds like you have a lot of good experience already. You should do well if you follow through with your purchase.

ON the subject of getting grants to help start a farm I know of no such thing. There are lots of ways to get grants for doing practical research on ideas that will make farms more profitable.

You should talk to your local county extension agent. They will know what is possible as they are normally a required part of any grant process.

As many would tell you. If you have sufficient land and are trying to be sustainable you need a mix of animals, vegetables and grains. I used to have some chickens and cows, but I have no animals at this time. For the size of my place I think that only chickens and maybe a few goats would actually work. My pond is full of fish and turtles so I actually have a meat supply but it is not really domesticated. And we are over run with deer and geese.

I strongly recomend finding an experienced farmer to advise you on the best approach for your farm. The extension agents can help too.

Best of luck. Wyo

Smartcrop,

I don't havwe any problem with a visit, but that is a long way to come just for that.

I googled "Organic Farm New Jersey" and a big list of farms came up many of which are probably quite close to you. Folks that are farming like this are pretty friendly. I am sure one of them would let you come by and talk to them for a time. You could also google CSA New Jersey and get a list of farms (might be the same list).

But if you are going to be in the area and want to visit send me a note and we'll see if we can work it out.

e-mail is: stridersnowbear (at) aol.com
Wyo