http://politics.reddit.com/info/6252l/comments/

thanks for your support.

* Which of these vehicle types do you think we should have more of?

Well, you left off regular bicycles, inline skates, and skateboards. I think we should have more of the non-motorized vehicles, and more of the small motorized vehicles so long as they replace larger motorized vehicles. I expect we'll get there.

* Which ones should be allowed on main roads?

All of them.

* Which ones could use an on-road bicycle lane amongst traffic?

The ones without motors. Frankly, I think we should just call bike lanes HPV (Human powered vehicle) lanes.

* Which ones could use an off-road bicycle path in your local park?

The ones without motors.

* Which ones should get free entry into congestion charging zones?

The ones without motors.

* Which ones require dedicated parking spaces?

Why would any of them require dedicated parking spaces?

* Which ones would you feel safe in?

I usually bike or in-line skate to work, so I'd say all of them.

* Which ones should you be able to carry on a train?

The ones that are small enough to fit safely.

* Which ones should be taxed, and which ones subsidised?

None of them should be taxed and none of them should be subsidized. We should charge fuel taxes to deal with Peak Oil and GHG pollution and leave the taxes and subsidies at that.

However, I do think we should get our insurance rates and laws to reflect the potential damage a vehicle can do to others. Then, in almost all cases, anyone who hits a pedestrian is at fault both legally and financially. Operators of larger vehicles who hit operators of smaller vehicles should be proportionally by size and fault responsible for the crash. The idea that all vehicles are equal in terms of responsibility is bunk.

* Which ones should 'bicycle' advocacy groups support?

Bicycling advocacy groups should support the rights of HPV bicyclists first, other HPV operators, then maybe electric bike operators. Basically, the ones in similar discrimination positions.

I must say that when riding my regular non-electric bicycle, and am on city streets (typically <= 35mph) that there are times that I "take the lane". If I am going down a street and need to make a left-hand turn, then I need to be in the left-hand turn lane. Trying to make the turn from elsewhere is problematic at best.

When I ride my bicycle to the office, my parking space is next to my desk. Bicycles are hard to secure - someone could steal the headlights for example. Even the best locks that are out there can easily be defeated with the cheap battery powered angle grinders that are on the market these days. While none of this is likely to happen at our office, nobody seems to bother me about bringing it up in the elevator, so that's where I park it.

I occasionally ride a bike with a 500W electric hub motor. With my assistance it will run about 20-25MPH. This is comfortable on residential roads, provided there are not many stops (stops waste power).

On the major arteries that are necessary to actually go anywhere this is too slow, interaction with traffic flow can be terrifying, and it exposes one to high levels of exhaust, not a good thing while exercising.

On the recreational bicycle/walking/rollerskating paths, which are 8 feet wide, this is much too fast. There are many twists and turns and old people walking dogs. While the path is scenic and enjoyable, it is dangerous for commuting at speed. It is necessary to frequently limit speeds to 10MPH or slower to avoid hazards.

I think it is clear that what is needed is a separate communting system with design principles similar to limited-access highways (with overpasses, lanes, access ramps and limited grades), but away from exhaust-spewing engines. This would allow movement of light, low-powered vehicles over intermediate distances at relatively high speed, without the danger of encountering pedestrians or other slower moving traffic.
Regarding the questions from the article:

* Which of these vehicle types do you think we should have more of?

I think it is obvious that the lowest powered device that will do the job should be used. Preferably automobiles and trucks should be excluded from all pedestrian-accessible areas, with pay-to-park lots attached to roads near populated areas.

Think Disney World, where you drive on the highway to get there, then park and walk/ride or use the public transit system.

* Which ones should be allowed on main roads?

Road systems should be re-engineered to class traffic by use and size. Large arteries would be used for heavy, high-speed motor vehicle traffic, smaller roads would be converted to light vehicle and foot traffic, with segregation for relatively high-speed commuters.

* Which ones could use an on-road bicycle lane amongst traffic?

Only those that are not human powered (again, exercising in exhaust is very bad for one's health).

* Which ones could use an off-road bicycle path in your local park?

Depends on what other infrastructure is available and how the bicycle path is set up. In general, anything that is no wider than the lanes of the path, does not produce exhaust while on the path and does not exceed the safe speed for the path.

* Which ones should get free entry into congestion charging zones?

Depends on the zone. Any vehicle in sufficient quantity can cause congestion.

* Which ones require dedicated parking spaces?

All of them, though not necessarily in the same locations. Vehicles that are not given parking consideration are marginalized.

* Which ones would you feel safe in?

Depends on infrastructure.

* Which ones should you be able to carry on a train?

Depends on the train.

* Which ones should be taxed, and which ones subsidised?

Taxes and subsidies should be used to balance traffic between mediums as necessary to encourage efficient movement of people and infrastructure creation.

* Which ones should 'bicycle' advocacy groups support?

Bicycles, one would presume. Whether they class hybrid human-electrics or pure electrics as bicycles would depend on the group and their particular goals.

These are great ideas. I wonder though, my Chevy Metro, 1000 cc, was discontinued in 2001, due to small size and not enough power, and it is not yet back. Most people will have trouble descending and stooping to a 1000 cc or 800 cc car, let alone a bicycle of some sort. Many people will keep that gigantic gas hog pick-up or SUV or 4X4 "off the road" windshield cowboy vehicle at 10-20 MPG til hell freezes over and we all die.

Longboards are skateboards with larger wheels that are ideal for getting places or commuting. They use much less material than a bicycle and they're easier to carry. Check out this video to see longboards in action. Here in Vancouver you can see guys in business suits riding longboards to work.

Your comment about a future "bi-modal size distribution of vehicles" caused me to realize that if this polarization of vehicle sizes does occur in the future that it will be because of a strong need to increase vehicle energy efficiency.

So the solution will be MUCH LOWER SPEED LIMITS because the light passenger vehicles will not be capable of higher speeds AND the big cargo trucks that are somewhat efficient because of the large loads they can haul will be even more efficient when they drive much slower. Maybe 40mph will be the future speed limit?

As for bikes, I have a Xtracycle cargo bike. It is great! It will haul 4 bags of groceries, or a passenger, or even long garden tools when I go do a demo for my tool business.

Greg in MO

Hi,

3 wheeled enclosed bicycles AKA velomobiles are already here! Here is a website by a Minnesotan devoted to enclosed bicycles. And for those of you who are unfamilar with Minnesotan winters, they can be very very cold.

http://www.velomobiling.com

The author of this website has pictures of over 10 velomobiles displayed and a tutorial on building an Alleweder. The speed record for a velomobile is about 80 mph so the fairing not only makes the vehicle comfortable in inclemental weather but FASTER.

Some of the velomobiles have electric assists. Here is one going 45 mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WgMIVIJlyc

Right now the cost of a good velomobile is in the thousands but then again, so is a good racing bike. There is no reason that they shouldn't be available for around $500 if the economies of scale were invested in.

Charles

Electric bikes seem a bit overrated to me.

They have a range of only about 20 miles, and that's at the limit of battery power. Rechargeable batteries generally shouldn't be depleted beyond 50% on a regular basis, so you're really talking about 10 miles. Still, maybe that's fine for the majority of electric bike uses. A network of trains is much more effective, however.

The Smart car is also overrated. It's only a little smaller than a typical European hatchback, except the hatchback seats four and has luggage space while the Smart car does not. The price is about the same. It's a little easier to park, but that's not much advantage. I'd rather have a 75mpg 4-door Audi A2.

As for the "daily commute," trains beat all comers for distances over 3 miles.

Which of these vehicle types do you think we should have more of?
- All of them! You could have added a horse, a recumbent and a rickshaw (trishaw/ becak) too, for completeness. :-)

Which ones should be allowed on main roads?
- I think the access laws are about right here in Victoria, Australia. Bicycles are roadworthy vehicles. Allowed on all roads except toll-roads and some high-speed freeways. Some other human-powered vehicles are classed as “bicycles” too. You need brakes, a bell, reflectors and lights at night. You’re not allowed to ride on footpaths (sidewalks) unless you’re under 12 years old, or accompanying a child.

Which ones could use an on-road bicycle lane amongst traffic?
- An on-road bicycle lane is a traffic lane on the road. I don’t think it’s a good idea for non-roadworthy vehicles to use them.
- It’s unlikely you’ll be able to complete a practical transport trip exclusively on dedicated bicycle lanes. For example, most homes are unlikely to ever have a dedicated bike lane going past them. Turning right (across the traffic) often requires you to leave the bike lane. If the bike lane is in the door zone of parked cars, it may be safer to use the next lane over.
- Most bike lanes are good, but still no real substitute for skills and experience riding with other traffic.

Which ones could use an off-road bicycle path in your local park?
- I think all the narrow ones, that don’t have a internal combustion engine (ICE)

Which ones should get free entry into congestion charging zones?
- All of them!

Which ones require dedicated parking spaces?
- Well, for all of them, dedicated parking spaces are more of a luxury than a necessity. I would certainly support converting car spaces to motorbike and bicycle spaces, under cover if possible. And change the planning laws that require new developments to provide heaps of car spaces. Here, motorbikes often park on the footpath (sidewalk). The .gov tried to make them stop it, but the bikers protested by taking up all the on-road car parking spaces one day! So they got their way.

Which ones would you feel safe in?
- I’ve commuted on roads on a bicycle for 20 years. Knocked off once, injured my wrist once. From the Aussie fatality stats I’ve seen, by choosing a workplace 10km away and cycling, my risk is similar to a motorist commuting 60 km, a risk many accept. A British study showed that as an impact on lifespan, the benefits of cycling on roads outweighed the risks by 20 to 1. I feel safe enough.

Which ones should you be able to carry on a train?
- The rules here allow bicycles, including electric assist but not with an ICE. Seems reasonable to me. It would be nice if the trams (trolley cars) and busses had some allowance for bikes too. There is always the option of a folding bike.

Which ones should be taxed, and which ones subsidised?
- I’d apply a luxury tax on high-value vehicles with an ICE and also ratchet up taxes on the fuel.

Which ones should 'bicycle' advocacy groups support?
- I think it’s stretching a bit too far for bicycle advocacy groups to support electric cars and electric motor-bikes. Human-powered and motor-assist should do it.

What would your local transport planner say?
- Although the legal framework is pretty good here, the devil is in the details. Roads and suburbs are designed for motorists, private carparks force cyclists to dismount, driver training ignores awareness of bicycles, etc etc.

Hey, you missed the question about road registration!! Motorists often complain that bicycles are allowed on the roads without registration. What they miss is that the registration doesn’t pay for the roads, it covers the Traffic Accident Commission costs (which provides health care for accidents involving a motorised vehicle) and it’s own administration. Effectively, the reason you need a driving licence and vehicle registration is the same reason you need a firearms licence and gun registration (in Australia anyway) – both are deadly items. The damage caused by bicycles (or horses) is minimal by comparison to motor vehicles.

I am hopefully getting a test ride on this tomorrow:

http://www.vectrix.com/Portal/1/Language/47/Page/1/Home_(US).aspx

They are quite expensive however they do have some advantages -

'Outstanding Performance

* Fast – A top speed of 62 mph (100 km/h).
* Rapid Acceleration - 0-50 mph (96 km/h) in 6.8 seconds.
* Extended Range – Up to 68 miles (110 km) on a single charge (average speed of 25 mph (40 km/h). The patented throttle-activated regenerative braking system (DAaRT™) helps to extend range by up to 12% by redirecting energy back into the battery during braking.
* Excellent Handling – A low center of gravity, a stiff frame, and even weight distribution provide superior handling. "

I wonder if there are enough resources to create electric bicycles, never mind electric cars, for a majority of the world's population. China created 20m electric bikes last year, using 400,000 tons of lead, and the price of lead has hit an all time high. 20m bikes might sound like a lot, but it's still less than a third of a percent the total population of the earth.

See article here.

When I stop seeing people driving brand new, mega-sized SUVs, pickups, and off-road thisis-and-thats, then I'll start thinking about gas-saving transport. Where you and you live, it might seem a great idea, but around here people are killed almost daily riding bicycles to work, and apparently the vehicles doing the deed are so big that the drivers don't even notice, since a majority of the accidents seem to involve a hit and run. For all practical purposes, give me a 5 gal-per-mile Sherman tank, that is until we are ALL forced to adopt more reasonably-sized vehicles. Oh, and since I live in the Pacific Northwest, when that more reasonable time comes, you can offer me a vehicle with a cover on it--it's the rain, you know...

Check out:

www.aptera.com

-they aim to start commercial production next year, its a low drag body shell surrounding a lithium powered 3 wheeler. The company started out making bikes to echo the idea of a comment above.

300mpg? Well, depends entirely on usage. I think we are going to need a new measure for these hybrid PHEVs, any thoughts?

Nick.

I love the thought of electric bikes. I want one! I rode a regular pedal bike whenever possible during the first 40 years of life, now my body has gone out of warrranty for 17 years and am physically unable to (disability). An electric would be the bees' knees. If they come down in price some, I'll get one - though I live in a hilly area so it would need some pulling power.

Electric bikes seem a great answer for the old or disabled, as a reasonable alternative to euthanasia. Riding one where I am right now would tread the middle ground: it would be suicide among the idiots in giant cars and trucks.

A disabled friend in Las Vegas rides a recumbent trike (non-motorized) but has lost some of the use of his muscles and wil be adding an electric motor. His modest suggestion - which rather fits with the Nevada culture - is that it should be made legal for people on bikes to open fire with a handgun on any large vehicle which crowds them. I can't see this being made law in most other places and in Las Vegas it's nearly redundant... but in terms of "danger parity" I can see his point. Who would crowd a bicycle if the granny on it was packing heat and could legally use it? They'd probably get a full ten carlengths of courtesy space.

I have an Electric Bike already. 450 Watt motor, top speed about 15 mph. but needs pedal assist to climb hills.

I also have a 49 cc Gas-engine scooter. It gets 93 MPG , with atop spee of 35.

and Finally I have an aging (1997) Saturn Wagon driven less than 1000 miles in the last year, that gets about 30 MPG, if I need to haul significant things.

the Scooter is my daily driver. As I'm less than 10 miles from a Nuclear plant, electricity will be a given for the next 40 years. I plan to see about a more powerful electric in the near future

I didn't see any of these on the list - seems like a good set of balloon tires and a big basket with electric stuff underneath would make a fine ride for the discerning older person who is allergic to falls.

Yes.

More lead. We need to distribute lead as far and wide as possible. Then, once we develop other technologies involving lithium, which will suffer the same peak as oil, Sodium Nickel Chloride which is a known carcinogen, and Zinc Air batteries, don't forget a free zinc ion in solution is highly toxic to plants, invertebrates, and even vertebrate fish, we can complete the utter destruction of the planet.

And, the best part is, we get to ride around on little clown vehicles and go, "Weeeeeeeee!"

God bless our ability to develop "solutions."

My 48 volt bike ...
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/e-motor-assist/photos/view/f1d1?b=1&m=f...

The lovely Julie riding it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMH_bk1Wdd0

You should add solar powered mobility networks to the list of options:

• Last Oil Crisis Automated guideways identified as the solution
• Energy requirements are so low, they can be solar powered
• Use: 200 watt-hours to travel a mile
• Collect: 2.5 million watt-hours/day/mile

The International Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exposition

Going on now ....

http://www.electricdrive.org/evs23/index.php?tg=articles&topics=214#art1264

Phil Hart

You stated ....
" I can also imagine manufacturer's addding little 'bubble' cages around them soon, to provide weather protection so that the list of reasons not to 'cycle to work' reduces even further."

Well here you go ....

http://www.harveyev.com/bugE/index.shtml

Didn't see any mention of the Twike, which is another Pedal/Electric Three Wheeler in a Bubble (2-seater) .. made currently in Germany.

http://www.twike.com/english_informations.html

Also pricey.. about $10k
but supposed to get 80 miles with the Nimh Batts, 55 with the Nicd's..

Bob

For a perspective on what can be done in times of need, you only need to look at poorer countries. Their present may be our future:

http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

Truly amazing pictures of huge loads on small vehicles. Bicycles, rickshaws, bicycle trailers, motorcycles, motor scooters...

With all these transport options, so much for the oft-cited Coming-Doomsday, hey?

We should not be making the assumption IMHO that urban assault vehicles will be dominating the roads for too much longer. My concern is that a fast crash will hit before we get through the red tape and the major shift in the mind set of Joe and Jane Bloggs required to make this feasible.

We need to let our poli's know that we are concerned about these issues as well as just posting among ourselves! The Greens are on top of this issue, let's get Labor up to speed now.

A quote from the work Senator Milne has been doing... Sorry for the long post but I felt it applies to the topic.

The full Hansard is available here:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S9409.pdf

Senator MILNE—I return to the issue of the REVA electric car. I want to follow on from Senator O’Brien’s questions. Mr Robertson [Mr Peter Andrew Robertson, General Manager, Vehicle Safety Standards, Department of Transport and Regional Services], you indicated earlier that the matter went to the state governments in January 2006. I am aware that a couple of state governments were very predisposed to the vehicle and came away from the meeting opposed to it. Did the Commonwealth give any advice to the states in that meeting, either written or verbal, about the safety or acceptability of the vehicle?

...Mr Robertson—When the minister wrote to the states, the minister outlined the requirements for standards that passenger vehicles would need to meet and simply asked whether the states would be prepared to allow an additional category of vehicle that would be able to meet lesser safety standards.

Senator MILNE—When you say ‘lesser safety standards’, was it pointed out that the safety standards have already been assessed in terms of letting those vehicles on the road in Europe, Japan and the UK?

Mr Robertson—I believe the correspondence indicated that the vehicles were available for use on roads in the UK.

Senator MILNE—Was there any reference to the fact that we have mutual recognition of standards?

Mr Robertson—That is not a mutual recognition issue, Senator. As I explained before, the standards are an international category that covers standards within them, and the issue for consideration was simply whether the Australian government would adopt that categorisation within domestic legislation.

Senator MILNE—Has the Commonwealth or your department given any advice in relation to accepting that category?

Mr Robertson—The minister’s letter simply asked whether they would be prepared to, and pointed out some of the issues associated with vehicles that are of a very light weight and low power.

Senator MILNE—What were some of the issues that were pointed out to the states by the Commonwealth?

Mr Robertson—You do not have to point out too much, Senator, because they are pretty selfevident. The vehicles are low powered, travel at low speed and are lighter than a normal passenger vehicle. The issue really is whether the states and territories would be prepared to accept those vehicles for registration.

Senator MILNE—In terms of your other reference to golf buggies and the like, can you explain to me why there aren’t golf buggies on the streets of London when there are REVA cars on the streets of London, if the danger is that if you register this category that is what will occur?

Mr Robertson—No, Senator, I can’t explain. I am not aware of whether there are any vehicles of that nature on the streets of London. All I can say is that the states and territories do get regular requests, as I understand it, from people who do have such vehicles to use them on public roads occasionally—for example, if they are in a gated community and want to run down to the local shops, or something like that. Generally, those requests are resisted.

Senator MILNE—I think you can understand my concern here that there is a vast difference between the REVA car and a golf buggy in a whole lot of the features of the vehicles and safety standards. In the UK, Japan and Europe they register these vehicles and this category exists. They are on the road and yet they are being actively blocked here in Australia. I am trying to understand why that is occurring. Would you be prepared to table for this committee the advice in the letters that have gone to the states in relation to this vehicle, please?

Mr Mrdak [Mr Mike Mrdak, Deputy Secretary, Department of Transport and Regional Services]—We will take that up with the minister. It is a letter from the minister. We will need to seek his views as to whether he is prepared to have his correspondence tabled.

Senator MILNE—Would you also table any advice that your department has given to the states in relation to this matter? Can I also ask whether any correspondence has gone from your department by email or by letter to people, engineers and so on, who might be assessing the vehicle advising them not to proceed? Is that the case?

Mr Robertson—I am not aware of any email traffic or any other advice that tells people not to proceed.

Senator MILNE—Have you given any advice at all to anyone about whether or not this vehicle should go on the road?

Mr Robertson—My role is not to say whether or not the vehicle should go on the road. My role is to manage process, as is the minister’s. The issue before the minister was whether this category of vehicle should be accepted within Australian government legislation. He consulted his state and territory colleagues on whether they would support that, given that they would have to register the vehicle. Clearly, there is not much point creating a category that would facilitate the compliance of vehicles if they are not going to be registered. The responses were not supportive. That is simply what the process came down to.

Mr Mrdak—We will certainly take on notice providing copies of the minister’s letters to the states and any advice we have provided to the states. We will seek the minister’s views. I think the important point, as Mr Robertson is highlighting, is that these vehicles do not meet the existing Australian design rule categories because they do not meet particularly the frontal and side protection safety requirements of the ADRs. So they do need a separate category to be created. To this point the jurisdictions who register the vehicles have not been prepared to create that category for a lot of the reasons Senator O’Brien was asking about in relation to protection, speed and traffic mix and how they would operate. That is the view of the jurisdictions. At the end of the day in our federal system that is where the responsibility for registration and access to the road system lies.

Senator MILNE—Yes, I understand that perfectly but it has never been my impression that the UK government, the governments of Europe or the government of Japan accept lower safety standards for vehicles on their roads. They have created a category. They have created regulations around that category for where the vehicles can be used and how. I am simply asking: is it beyond the wit of Australian governments to do the same?

Mr Mrdak—I think the essence, as we have been explaining, is that, in accepting those categories, those governments have obviously accepted a lower degree of passenger safety in the operation of those vehicles than we and they require in design rules for higher category vehicles. They are important considerations for the Australian government in adopting such an additional category. The adoption of such a category, as Mr Robertson has indicated, in the absence of agreement from the states to register such vehicles would seem to serve no purpose.

Senator MILNE—I accept that. That is why I will wait to see what advice has been given in relation to it. But it strikes me as extraordinary that these vehicles are being given priority access on bus lanes and exemption from congestion tax. They are being given a huge subsidy by the Japanese government for their import into Japan but Australia cannot see its way clear. I will be interested to see the correspondence and that will not be the last we will hear of that.

Mr Mrdak—Certainly. Obviously those governments are making judgements in relation to how those vehicles fit within their traffic patterns and traffic flow and with the degree of safety requirements they are prepared to accept.

Senator MILNE—Precisely.

Mr Mrdak—Australian jurisdictions may well—and quite rightly—take a different view in relation to our community’s expectations of safety and traffic flow for these vehicles.

Senator MILNE—I would also be interested in the advice you have in relation to the number of accidents those vehicles have had where they have been registered. I would be very interested in knowing the basis of the claims on safety. I do not know how many of them have been involved in accidents in London, Tokyo and the like, but I would be very interested to know.

Mr Mrdak—We will take that on notice, but I am not aware that the department would have too much information on that.

Senator MILNE—Thank you.

Because the REVA is a 4 wheeler it has to pass expensive DOT crash etc. tests , have air bags etc.

So in the US one can now buy a 4 door motorcycle ....

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Xebra_EV/

A Wuxi Water Taxi(electric). From our recent trip. We were told there are no motorbikes allowed in the inner ring of Wuxi. In all the cities we visited we saw extensive use of electric scooters. They cost around $450 U.S. and up new. (3200 RMB)

In Shanghai and Beijing the bicycle and the electric scooter are far from extinct. Quite the opposite. All varieties of vehicle share the road. To us we didn't see any evidence of traffic rules but of course there are lights and police helpers all over. We traveled a bunch and had tons of close calls but no contact.

Young folks seem to prioritize a condo or apartment then an electric scooter. We talked to several who said that traffic and expense were so severe that they would not even consider trying to buy a car. But of course there are plenty of those too. I read there are 55 injuries and 6 deaths per 100k due to vehicle accidents in Shanghai per year but then almost no one wears a helmet either.

The electric bike is far from a novelty. It is certainly now a mainstay of Chinese commerce as is the bicycle.

An HPV concrete coring rig (not electric). There were 4 with homemade business sign.

I have been riding an electrically assisted velomobile for about a year, and have put about 5500km on it. It's perfect for the cold and rainy weather here - for more info see:
http://www.bsustainable.ca
http://theyellowvelo.blogspot.com

* Which ones require dedicated parking spaces?
Unfortunately, cars are small enough and microcars big enough that it's impractical to do a simple 2-for-1 replacement without a lot of waste. So for parking, we should have 3 classes, which all use the same space:
Carspace:
Fits within (2.5mx7m), fits 1
Cyclespace:
Fits within (1.2m'x2.5m') horizontal, fits 5
Bikespace:
Fits within (0.3m'x1.8m') horizontal double-stacked, fits 20 after taking into account barriers.

For purposes of bike paths, bike-on-transit, bike lanes, etc - a "bike" is anything under 20kg (liftable by you) which fits in a bikespace and doesn't have an IC engine onboard (for sound and emissions purposes).

* Which ones should be allowed on main roads?
* Which ones could use an on-road bicycle lane amongst traffic?
* Which ones could use an off-road bicycle path in your local park?
To be allowed to use a road, you need to be capable of staying within 10mph of the speed limit - whether that is foot traffic or freeway traffic.

* Which ones should get free entry into congestion charging zones?
"Bikes" should get free entry, and motorcycles should pay 1/2 the car cost - but on that subject...

I don't like congestion charges. For inner cities with a functional mass transit system, IMO expensive licensing(which only taxis, delivery vehicles, limos, rich people, and carshares can justify) + limiting car access entirely works better. It incentivises a limited number of vehicles being used heavily within the city, instead of penalizing entry/exit from the city. Have most streets only be accessible via trolleybus/metro, taxi, or carshare, and you've got an inner city that's no longer dominated by parking and traffic and exhaust fumes - one which welcomes "bikes" and walking, and which has a taxi system cheap enough and fast enough that you wouldn't really feel the need for a car even with a sedentary lifestyle. Spend the money on a few dozen robotic parking garages at transit centers in the suburbs, and putting a trolleybus on every other street. Spend the cops that aren't metermaids any more on reducing crime.

* Which of these vehicle types do you think we should have more of?
* Which ones should be taxed, and which ones subsidised?
None. High, carbon-and-tariff burdened fuel taxes are adequate, without compromising flexible end-use or requiring education of clueless legislatures. That will decide what is practical in what situations and what is not, not me or my Congressmen.

I occasionally ride a bike with a 500W electric hub motor. With my assistance it will run about 20-25MPH.

That has to be rather disconnected from reality.
I'm not bad and am good for about 350W PEAK and I'll do 25 MPH easily at less than 350W. The 500W rating has to be about 2x what the motor is really good for.

These sort of vehicles are fine for some parts of the world. Winter has already started up here - greasy days with slush, snow and snot (frozen slush) on the roads. Bike lanes are now a thing of summer with the sidewalk plow and road plows filling them with snow and snot.

We have a car to get the kids / family around town. Renting a car to go outside of town is feasable - the issue is what to do in town. We've used the bus but most often make due with walking or, if it's close, everyone takes a bike.

Batteries will be a real issue with PEVs. -20C and -30C is hell on batteries in the winter (lead acid, gel cell, NiCd) never mind the salt / slush. If I get 2 years out of a winter bike I'm doing well. Cables, chains, bearings pretty well need to be replaced on a yearly basis.

Step #1 needs to be ditching personal transportation and changing our lives so that they don't depend upon it.

Step #0 would be a 1 child policy for those of us in the west. We've overshot and need to deal with it.

I don't want to think of the vast quantities of batteries and their toxic chemicals.

A friend just moved from a "co-op" housing community in town where their children could step out the door and find other kids to play with; to living in a community where they are in a suburb island connected to a major highly upon which bicycles are banned. The kids can't even legally bike to school!

Why the focus on bicycles that rely on other inputs beside direct human movement?

I am nearly 40 and cycle 10,000km per annum unassisted. I own both a road bike (skinny tyres, light frame) and a hybrid, (fatter tyres, heavier frame).

A reasonably fit adult can cycle up until very old age. If you need to carry loads, suitable trailers are possible, you are going to travel more slowly, but it is still faster than walking.

I don't see the need for everyone to travel at average speeds of 30km/h+. Why do we need the added complexity and weight of an external power source rigged to a bike, when a human that sits on it, can easily supply a sustainable power output of 50W-200W+, (for a commute of an hour) depending on fitness.

I rode to work today. Only 4 km, but the wind chill was about 15 F. In this town there are exactly 2 bike lanes, which are about 3 blocks long, few bike racks and narrow, poorly maintained streets. The infrastructure in many cities needs an overhaul before cycling is an alternative for a large number of people. It's just too much of an auto-centric world we've created. Also, most people aren't as amazingly tough as me :)

Another problem: kids. How do you take kids to school? If they are over 30 pounds you can't put them in a trailer.

I've been riding bikes since I was a kid and still enjoy it tremendously, so long as I am not having to ride along a main highway with crazy drivers driving at crazy speeds. For riding along bike trails and along sleepy streets in a small town setting they are great. They produce almost no greenhouse gases (depending on the beans eaten) and are quite energy efficient - lots of miles to the kilocalorie. What I would truly like to see are more dedicated bike lanes or ideally, where practical, separate parallel bike 'paths' alongside main arteries where bicyclists can ride safely. The problem is safety. One would get ran over on most of the roads in Madison, Alabama or many other small cities because they do not have facilities for bicycles and drivers don't generally like sharing lanes with bicyclists. I was quite impressed with Colorado's excellent bike highways. Yes, totally dedicated two lane bicycle highways - in many cases with underpasses under major highways so one need not risk life and limb to cross a major highway. If cities and small towns would provide more facilities for bicyclists then riding bikes to work, grocery, church, etc. would be more realistic. For now, in most cases, you are taking a big risk competing with cars and big trucks on busy, narrow highways. People don't ride because the infrastructure to accommodate safe cycling isn't there. With peak oil upon us it's time I believe that government start taking action to provide more dedicated bike routes. I also love the thought of plug-in hybrid bicycles (hybrid in this case means either leg power or electric power). I could charge mine from my solar panel! If anyone can suggest a good place to purchase one of these at an affordable price, I'd be interested!
Daniel Draffen

I have a more important question about electric bicycles: Why do a $60 200W electric motor and a $60 lead acid battery with $10 of chains and metal bits together cost $1,000?

Until someone can explain that to me, I'll be on the train or walking.