A request to our readers...

You will notice that the reddit and digg links have been taken down. We have had little success on both of late. We get crushed on digg with "burials".

Reddit is a different matter. If you submit a link with theoildrum.com in it (Europe, Canada, or mothership), it does not show up on the "new" page or the "hot" page, no matter how many upmod votes it gets. This is rather strange. There are sites that submit ten links a day over there, and yet, we cannot submit any. I have emailed them looking for an explanation a few times with no response.

Therefore, I am appealing to the reader community to help us out with this "blacklisting." Chances are somebody knows someone on the inside of these organizations and can contact them (especially reddit). But you can also send them an email noting the problem and asking for a response.

These link farms are one of the few ways we can expose our rigorously-presented ideas to others--it keeps the site growing, and more people collectively thinking of action and answers. Any help you can provide is welcome. Thanks.

Hello Prof. Goose,

I chucked a story on Digg and linked it to this article.


It is not being buried however it does not have many diggs as all mine do not. However having said that it has not been destroyed by buried. Yet...

Isn't Reddit owed by Conde Nast?

Doesn't Conde Nast also own...

Bon Appétit
New Yorker

With the possibly exception of the New Yorker... each of these publications has more advertising than content. And one might argue that the content is tailored to drive the advertising.

Why would this corporation want to promote TEOTWAWKI?

a)to help discuss and therefore prevent the nastier scenarios of TEOTWAWKI
b)to mitigate and adapt so as to keep as much TWAWKI as possible.
c)they wouldn't

Wired did a Cover story on oil a year or so ago.

If my memory is working this morning, it was very much in the "technology will save us, so keep motoring" camp.

Here is their take on oil sand:

There was a very strange relationship between wired.com and wired magazine for a while, but I believe the magazine now controls both outlets.

When I did a google of "oil" on wired.com I got this very funny news story.


I just did a Google search on the phrase "peak oil" on my home computer (in the UK) and found very few Adwords advertizers - i.e. the clicks are cheap. I did the same from a remote PC in the States and I got a few more Adwords advertizers - including theoilddrum.com

I was going to suggest that you tried adwords but it seems that you are trying it already (for the States).

I suggest that you write letters to prominent newspapers pointing out what seems to be going on. I have had at least 4 letters published in the FT over the past 2 years that mention a looming shortage without mentioning "Peak Oil"

Maybe we should start a survey thread, asking TOD readers how they first found the site. That might help inform us as to which routes are effective for spreading the word.

I found this place a few months ago, when Stuart's first SA peice was cross-posted (or described and linked to in a diary, I don't exactly recall) on DailyKos.


I got here by a comment at slashdot. Glazed trough the site and was put away by the doom. Two years later (this year), I come back trying to understand what's going on.

I found it by Digg. I read daily I may not comment daily but I read 90% of the comments. All you guys are great and I love reading I just dont have the time to reply as much as I would like.

Greetings Prof. Goose,

I wondered how your new tactic would work out. I am not surprised that it is now basically confirmed this site is "targeted" so to speak. Conspiracy, or just a policy, very murky line isn't it. Harm, as the legalize term goes is hard to prove.

I would suggest that before you take action you do get written responses from both organizations from direct questions to ask about policy and ask for written policy's (ask to see all they will provide). Don't ask for specific ask for all public policy's not just about this issue.

Ask for all public policy's

Ask for a response to direct questions about the issue as you know it.

Examine the statements and look for conflicts and of course where they violated their own stated policy.

Use this information for a campaign of letter writing etc. to everyone from congressional leaders, newspapers, etc. and use this as an opportunity.

or roll over, which is what most people do. Not saying this board will, just saying that most do not want to risk or do the leg work.

If you wish to do this I suggest you open a link to a closed section that only allows work on this and other subjects related to "communication" about the issue of Peak Oil and a fair discussion of its implications and "truth".

I suggest not asking for the board individually to work on their own as a campaign with no goal or direction. Letter writing and being nice will generally get you no where. As a corporation the people you deal with take orders, and will be nice, but ignore you as a single entity. Why should they worry, and if you don't have your ducks in a row and start a campaign, there "organization" will tear you to shreds if you raise a stink in the press with nothing to back you up.

This is an opportunity. If you can gather evidence of bias from the work and methods used here you can do a world of good. Think of peoples reactions if they find out that this subject IS being withheld, which seems to go against their stated goals of providing the public with the best stories of the day (suggesting they are helping the public, not directing their views)

There are many here with great gifts in preparing charts and methods of showing trends. A bit of work on that to show bias etc by those sites will also be of great help.

Its going to take effort and consider that you might be asked about doing this by your superiors. Phone calls to university's from donors that own those companies, naw, they wouldn't wish to stifle speech or arguments that hurt their bottom line.

I imagine they will respond with a set of "rules" they use to determine their rankings. I am sure they will be vague enough to give them cover. However in those rules may be some loopholes that could be used to see if the bias continues.

with the work of all this maybe, just maybe, something will happen. The question is do you want to do it, and with a commitment.

A months work of work could lead to valuable press exposure at zero cost.

However I doubt this will happen. Why, because this site has people that are anonymous to even us that read it and post on it. Prof G or someone else would have to be a spokesperson for the board, and be visible, and be willing to answer questions, and perhaps make television appearances, etc. They will have to have the support of "whoever" is behind this board.

Do this if possible by attorney. I bet there is one on this board who will write it pro bono if you put out the request.

oh yes one more thing. A video on You tube etc with the above info etc can get you a ton of eyeballs. That I will do, but, you need the "visuals" and narration to back up your claims.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

Private websites can pretty much do whatever they want as far as blackballing, banning, censoring, etc. It sucks, but I don't see any legal options to force them to recognize our articles.

Agreed Enviro,

However legal action and "communication" to the public of their biased policy's while claiming they are not biased is fair game.

The use of an attorney in communication is one such device even when no obvious legal remedy is apparent or worth the trouble.

This website does ban does it not. It also has rules against certain subjects etc. This site is not above what they are objecting to.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

they do not claim to be unbiased anywhere on their site.

Do they claim to be biased then.

Or do they insinuate that they are unbiased.

Its one or the other isn't it. Deception by lack of terms is still deception is it not. Statements to the press and by news release will certainly not state that they are Biased do they. However do there remarks make it appear to the average reader that they wish to be balanced.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

PX This is why it is hard to understand you....

? This symbol is used after a question, this one to indicate a pause and "." this one at the end of a statement.

There is a place, Their is something that belongs to them and they're always going to misunderstand your writing when you punctuate poorly and use similar but incorrect words. Do your parents know you are on their (not there) comp?

Also the big letters only go at the beginning of the sentence.

BTW the sun is brighter than the stars and you are not prospering here.


Last Post G,

You are incorrect about the usage of a question mark and its need. I have posted this before and the link to the rulebook from API.

as for the rest of your personal attack ho hum.

and Matt.

The sun is a star.

Prof G. I truly do not think you wish to drive more traffic here. If you can't take this, then you truly do not want to spread the word and make this a general site. I don't think you can have it both way.

Please carry on with your work, but don't for a second believe that its fact. Its not a polemic is it.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

If I could suggest, the link farms provide exposure to wide numbers of people, but they are far from the most fertile ground for such efforts. The readership is generally looking for sensation and TOD rarely provides it. Here you tend to find little bits of jigsaw puzzle, being slotted together. Nothing to compare to some cheezburger cats.

Instead you need to target efforts, in two dimensions. You need the gateway articles that explain the context for a dimension and provide links to previous more detailed work. You also need to focus on certain groups: politicians, business men, scientists, householders, motivated students and pensioners. Each has a particular reason for being interested in the subject, and each tends to be addressable via significantly different mechanisms to digg and reddit.

As well as targeted articles on this and external sites, there are other mechanisms to drive interest: videos (youtube), myspace & facebook, online quizzes, competitions, interactive calculators & apps, even wallpapers and logos have their place. Like it or not, the question you are asking is one of marketing - and there are many methods to doing that cheaply and effectively.

Above all, I would suggest you need to bring structure to this site for the visitor, allowing them to smoothly transition from a gateway article to wider and deeper understanding. That's not really there at the moment since the metaphor is that of a linear blog.

To have the impact you seek you need to truly understand the targets you have and the routes to them. You have grown outside the confines on a pure blog, you need something more enabling and to harness the social efforts that are possible from your readership.

FWIW, of all the comments thus far I think this is one of the most useful. Bring structure to the material. New readers need a bit of hand-holding and guidance to digest all of this.

I'd also recommend producing a series of printable pamphlets that people can use to introduce others to the concept and to direct them to the appropriate newbie-lead-in page on TOD.

Two solutions come to mind :-

  1. Swap links with TOD friendly site owners. SlashDot has this feature, its called 'supporters' they link to you if you link back.

  • Create a news aggregator site like reddit or digg but for energy related things. You could call it 'fade-out' or something. You could have a world map showing which countries are fading out due to energy shortages and which countries are thriving due to good use of renewable energy sources. Make it searchable by time or country. If I have time I might have a go at it myself.
  • 1. We do that already. Many emails and blogwhores in other content boxes are going in germane stories.

    2. We call that the DrumBeat, but you're welcome to give it a shot.

    TOD Overlords,

    Inevitably tone is lost in the written word. Having said that, here's my take on this:

    Maybe now that you've had this "encounter" with a tentacle of the Iron Triange, it's time for you guys to realize you're never - and I do mean never - going to be accepted by the mainstream establishment no matter how many graphs and data you put up, no matter how airtight your arguments are, no matter how soberly and rigorously you present the issues.

    Oh sure, you might get to headline the next ASPO gabfest or something but that's about it. For reasons already outlined by Jeff and other folks in this thread this info, no matter how soberly you present it, is never going to be accepted by the mainstream.

    It's time to drop these hopes of maybe leveraging TOD into policy advisory positions or whatever it is you're hoping for deep down and start looking for a place to hunker down and prepare for the coming clusterfuck. There's not going to be any collective action . . . at least not the type you're thinking of.

    I have a private list of 10-15 people I've gotten to know and trust over the years via LATOC. All of them are actively prepping and some of us are trying to figure out where to settle down, stock up on ammo and essentials, and basically prepare as best we can for what is coming. I would suggest you attempt to leverage TOD similarly. YOu've got a large enough readership you can probably find a core of 10-20 to connect with and make your plans. Or not . . .

    the reason this happens is simple.
    on digg your trying to attract the attention of people who generally don't have the wherewithal to know truth from a crackpot site. to put it bluntly people at both digg and slashdot think the people here are perpetuating a 'conspiracy by either the Arabs or big oil' depending on political affiliation. this imho is why the story's from this place get buried on digg and burned on slashdot's fire hose.

    Just a bunch of single minded individuals Kaiser, there isn't a controlling force behind all those "burials".

    This gets back to the "rules" of the site and how they let this happen and its a cover for not allowing certain agenda's to even surface or for very long.

    There was a post on this site about a company that worked as 'trolls" for companies etc. This site is "targeted" imo. you wish to claim us a the conspirators against a very transparent use of a 'rule" to keep info out that the PTB don't wish to be seen.

    This site is not alone in this. This is COMMON. The ability to "bury" stories is touted as an advantage for finding the best stories. Really, as I said daily accounting of the stories that are on top and what they are about may reveal an agenda.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    Now, now, PrisonerX... pretty soon you will make the happy-face crowd come out and call you names, like "doomer-porn" or an example of "disasterbation" or some other useless attack. You see, it even happens here on the site. This is like the problem that Hansen has faced on climate change. The research shows that the last 2-3 degree centigrade rise in temperature was accompanied by a 25 meter rise in sea levels. But no... the world doesn't want to hear that, not even the climate change community itself. Instead they talk about millimeters or centimeters or sea level rise because that is "safer" and more acceptable.

    Personally I think there are both corporate forces arrayed against TOD as well as general human psychology. People do not want to hear this. Look at the reaction right here whenever the possibility of ANY negative consequence is brought up for discussion - irrational anger, even from people who should at least be conversant in peak oil facts and open to the discussion of various scenarios.

    "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Dr. Albert Bartlett
    Into the Grey Zone

    Three encounters with media, a major oil company and a business group regarding Peak Oil are described below. I've related these stories before, but they are relevant to the topic.

    The Simmons/Kunstler event in Dallas, in 2005, was widely publicized to the local media. We had two experts--on energy and its impact on suburbia--with people like Boone Pickens and Herbert Hunt in attendance. The sole local media coverage was the student newspaper and an interview on the local NPR station. Although, It was covered in an article in Outside Magazine, it was a total media blackout by the local Mainstream Media.

    I debated ExxonMobil, Michael Lynch, and a consultant chosen by Saudi Aramco on PBS (regarding Peak Oil). On the way out, I offered the ExxonMobil guy my card, with a note on how to find my articles. He said that's okay, "We have read every word you have written." To which I replied, "Oh."

    I gave a peak oil presentation to the North Dallas Rotary Club, heavily populated by real estate, financial, auto related businesses, etc. I pulled no punches. Gave them the usual presentation, and recommended ELP. On the way out, a guy stopped me and said that while he agreed with me, he was surprised that I had not been assassinated. He was of course kidding, but I don't think that they had ever heard anyone break the news to them that we can't have an infinite rate of increase in the consumption of a finite energy resource base.

    These three groups pretty much correspond to the three legs of the "Iron Triangle." http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2767

    Again, I don't think that this is a deep dark conspiracy by these factions, but I do think that these groups are trying to preserve the conventional wisdom concept--that we can have an infinite rate of increase in the consumption of a finite energy resource base--for as long as possible.

    For a preview of coming attractions, we have to look no further than the world's largest net importer, the US, where we expect to import about 5% more crude oil + petroleum product every year, versus the world's largest net exporter, Saudi Arabia, which is currently showing a 5% plus annual decline rate in total net liquids exports.

    While it will be disruptive, dangerous and probably deadly, the upcoming collision between the conventional wisdom expectation of infinite energy and the realty of finite energy will at least be entertaining--as long as the angry Formerly Well Offs are not shooting in my direction.

    But hope springs eternal: Alan Drake For President!


    I appreciate all your posts here and your balance. No offense but how deep or dark a conspiracy is doesn't keep it from being effective. I don't pull punches. I think the time for nice nice is long over. Lines have been drawn and trying to straddle them will have two groups shooting at you.

    Considering the above ground factors now taking place I wonder what is going to happen. Though there are those that think they have it won and its just a matter of doing it. Many think that day is close, perhaps too close.

    Webster Tarpley, just released an article on above ground factors etc last night. Though I disagree with all of his views (I think he believes PO is a distraction) he can see the obvious chess moves playing out.

    Webster Tarpley makes the same claim I did in a post last night. Its become obvious that the democratic leadership is not interested in the Constitution or reigning in Bush. He claims in the article (with no evidence though, only a report he claims to have received) that a group of business men met with a Congressman (Dem) and urged him to work for impeachment. To their surprise he emphatically REJECTED the idea and supposedly told them that they were going to let Bush play it out and the Dems were going to let him do what is obvious and turn this country into a controlled state.

    you have Inside members of past and current administrations that have walked the halls of Power are now openly stating that they thing the Admin is going to do a false flag attack. Webster lays out the spoken evidence of this and the duplicity of the democrats in letting it happen. The link I have is to Rense currently and I don't link to him and other sites like Prison Planet etc for obvious reasons.

    The Rabbit hole is deep Westexas and few have even seen it much less even stared at it. Those that have even been down just a "smidgen" soon realize how vast an opening it becomes below the surface.

    Here's to a miracle to save this country and even have another President.

    anyone here ever read the story of "John Titor". Hoax in a sense, but oh so well done, and its well done for a reason. His predictions have come true in many instances. The one he gave though that really struck me and its very eerie.

    John was asked about Iraq and what would happen. This is his reply and its from back in 2001 or 2002 before it got going. he said this. "it would be a no armer and no legger".

    And that is exactly what is happening and to the surprise of most people. This war is a first for the number soldiers suffering amputations, its the number one casualty isn't it.

    If you want to change the system to have to work at changing it. Typing on keyboard is useful, but until people start to form groups and get into the streets, the end will come either in a abrupt change or in small increments. The plan seems to be imo in increments, but abrupt is just a signal away imo. And the next month or two can be very revealing about which it will be I think. How accurate have I been. Well I think River gathering coffee for her" hurricane" stash is very wise.

    How involved was the Titor "hoax" or as some say "operation".

    In 1999 a John Titor sent a fax to Art Bell making certain claims and statements. Then two years later or so John appeared on message boards with his story. Part of it was that he claimed he was going back in time after he left this time period. Art Confirmed the fax's and then did several things. Long story etc. The John Titor story when looked at for who what when why leaves many questions about the purpose.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    you misread what i wrote.
    what i said was the common view at those sites about what this site covers. this common view is what is keeping those story's from reaching the main page. the 'conspiracy' i mention is the false one that permeates these places.


    I still don't understand what you mean and what conspiracy you are referring to. What false conspiracy are you referring to.

    I can tell you that I see VERY VERY few links to the Oil drum at any conspiracy site. the Peakoil.com site does get a few. Matts site is the most linked too.

    As for other sites, I can tell you from personal experience that most of those boards have obvious trolls that "bury" and PO conversation. And its not polite either. This board is like they say "chopped liver" to the top conspiracy boards. I can bet very few of the readers here go to them. Though they are a treasure trove of quick fast up to date information on any topic of the day, and people that immediately start tearing apart the information. The NY steam pipe is an example. In the news nope, but what they have found is disturbing. But it will and has been 'buried" and it will not be allowed to come up.

    Every see any photos or pictures of that event. You should. The physics guys should be asking some pointed questions about what you see and the math to understand what I see. Example of those sites. Individuals took the security video that was used (timelapse) and found that it appears obvious photoshop and editing was done. The time stamps in cases are reported to jump backwards. They put the work up with their findings.

    I would like to note that the timestamp jumpbacks COULD be a result of the video being processed by youtube and google. Though I cannot say for sure that it is the reason. The codec's used by them and the ones used by the people uploading the video are not the same, and the mixup COULD be at that end and not appear on the original. Only a viewing of the original could make that determination.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria


    The reason Reddit won't work is because the message of the Oil Drum devalues every one of the (mostly frivolous) magazine properties Conde Nast owns.

    The reason Digg won't work... is because the owner wants to sell it for a lot of money like the UTube folks did. Facilitating a peak oil message and a peak oil audience won't bring big $$$ offers.

    Slashdot is owned by SourceForge, the old VALinux folks. They are listed on Nasdaq.

    Seriously... this is not about the web audience and their intellectual where-with-all. This is about WHO controls these "link farms". It's not a conspiracy, these are business decisions.

    But let's not be too hard on them. We haven't seen the New York Times or CNN step up to the plate. Where is the hard hitting investigative journalism on oil depletion?

    And where are the University faculties? Most of the alt-bio-fuel grant money is being inhaled by Phds who know that converting solar to biomass at 4.5% efficiency and then making fuel for 10% efficient ICE engines is a non-starter.

    Goose has surfaced a very deep issue here.


    Yes Prof G did open a box.

    However your statement that these are just "business" decisions is interesting. That its not a conspiracy. How deep into the bowels of corporations do you have experience is my question. Sounds naive to me. Corporations are built on secrecy and use of any and all tactics to "make profit" both legal and illegal. Conspiracy is the trademark/method of corporate profit. Employees are asked to be co-conspirators each and every day. THIS is also a reason that people aren't reacting. The fear of losing a job.

    now let me get back into my chair after I fell out laughing.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    Slashdot is owned by SourceForge, the old VALinux folks. They are listed on Nasdaq.

    Which means ... what? There's no stifling of even the most far-flung speculations on Slashdot. There's a bit of an overweight towards the no-global-warming brand of idiot groupthink on occasion, but nothing is whitewashed, nothing suppressed. Not all corporations are aligned with the oil business. And most Slashdot readers are fully acquainted with science fiction scenarios, so have no trouble picturing things like peak oil. There have been numerous good discussions about designing computer systems to use less energy lately - for that matter every sort of alternative energy prospect gets a good and frequent review.

    I got here due to Jerome a Paris' postings on DailyKos. I think TOD is much like RealClimate - this is just too dense for mere mortals to digest. They either get scared, or depressed, or scared and depressed, or depressed and then scared.

    I think some acceptance of this state of affairs is in order and then rephrase the question - how does TOD draw more letter writing, context holding, "thought leaders" from amongst the world's population. The answer may be simple word of browser, much like how I was lead here by Jerome.

    Come to think of it I don't know that I've ever seen a TOD reference over at RealClimate - perhaps some cross pollination there would be in order.

    Is there a LinkedIn group of TOD readers? Having that in place and then requesting an "answer" periodically within the site will get people talking in wider circles. I'm going to add "TheOilDrum" to my list of interests and see who finds me on there. I'd suggest others do the same and perhaps post there contact information here.


    As you know I don't agree with Hansen, but I don't endorse shutting him up either.

    Perhaps this information may surprise the "conspiracy" of Peak oil.

    MOST of the Conspiracy sites think you are a govt or corporate agenda. They think YOU are against them.

    Alex Jones, PO is a corporate Scam. He promotes about every conspiracy there is but PO is not on his list.

    Greg Pallast, PO is hoax etc. Not on his list.

    Steve Quayle, same

    Rense (I don't read his stuff regulary) is a conspiracy site and will Post PO info, but I think Jeff has stated he does not buy OUR case.

    I go to these sites to collect data and examine what they do and don't say. It is interesting to say the least. Such as Ron Paul is each and everyone's hero it seems. Very interesting.

    Also note that many of the main conspiracy boards have moderators, and owners that are open (now) Ron Paul supporters. What is Ron Pauls position on PO. anyone know, or hear it asked. Hear anyone ask ANY candidate about this. They ask about 911, and much more, but nada about PO.

    As for trying to cross pollinate over at RealClimate etc.

    I strongly urge against this. You have an "unproven" model you wish to communicate. Trying to use people driving cars and tag it to GW is not a direct link and you WILL alienate people. I can tell you that MANY people in the common world DO think their is an "agenda" behind GW,. I think staying with YOUR subject is best.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    It has been essentially a generation since the last time anyone felt that an 'oil crisis' was a suitable topic for public discussion.

    Even then, it was a subject which really didn't go very far in America.

    I don't think the coming morn at the end of the American Dream will look much like Reagan's morning in America - but then, America has been trying to follow a Hollywood script for a generation.

    Ask someone from New Orleans how well that works. As a matter of fact, ever notice how little information there is about the state of New Orleans, and the failure of American society to deal with that catastrophe?

    Consider it an audition for the road show likely to be visiting a number of coastal cities in the next few years.

    The Jeff Vail-- Unabomber Connection. Tin hats all around!!

    Even apart from a flammable (!) issue like peak oil, this site features some very off-beat politics among the contributors. How can organized opposition be a surprise?

    This won't be news to Prof Goose who, if memory serves, is a political scientist but the rest of you may not be aware that the site does have links to the extreme radical left-wing of the political spectrum, namely anarchism.

    Jeff Vail's book, "A Theory of Power", sports two endorsements on Amazon in it's Editorial Reviews section, (not user comments) . Both are by authors that openly identify themselves with anarchist movements: Noam Chomsky and John Zerzan. (Chomsky: anarcho-syndicalist, Zerzan: anarcho-primitivist)


    Even as anarchists go, Zerzan is regarded as extreme. Some of his works are available here at:


    He was a confidant of the Unabomber. Although I don't believe he personally incites violence against people, he does advocate the destruction of technology.


    Jeff's latest article on Mexico uses phrasing typical of anarchists and can easily be read as an anarchist piece in certain places.

    There is one other contributor that has flirted with anarchist views. That's you Nate Hagens!!! :-) (If I have the time next week, I'll document it).

    TOD is not an anarchist site overall, of course. I'm not saying the above-named contributors are, in fact, anarchists. That they have been influenced by anarchist thought is undeniable. For me, not a big deal, but others may think differently.

    My view is simple: people with extreme views are useful for teasing out data and insights one would otherwise not easily find. It adds spice to the site. But there is no way it enhances TOD's credibility and it's likely to incite countermeasures.

    (None by me, BTW. I'm here partly for the crazies.)

    Yes, I agree.

    People visit and relate or don't.

    TOD does have a breadth that allows a lot of relationships.

    The mainstream is not one of them.

    The crazies are entertainining, the relentless are relentless, that in itself has a certain amount of conviction.

    Credibility is earned. Not necessarily through science or evidence (WMD!)

    But - it spreads. The idea is a good one, one that can be grasped. (Campbell's pint!)

    For the last two summers markets have been helpful.

    The anarchists. The socialists. How will they drive?


    This is not intended to be a self-introduction, but an establishing comment regarding Prof. Goose's plea and this thread. I have been building and managing large database driven web sites for over ten years, including a Webby Awards finalist. There are many ways to increase traffic/awareness of TOD but I'll save and send those directly to Prof. Goose. Basically, I never recommend to clients/employers that they attempt to drive traffic via sites like Reddit. I agree that its a huge waste of time.

    In lieu of that, and JUST for starters, I suggest that everyone reading this thread write a letter to The New York Times regarding the lead article today "Gas Prices Rise on Refineries’ Record Failures" (see today's top article in Drumbeat).

    Given the professional background many of you have there is a good chance you'll be published or, at the very least, you'll get the attention of the Times editorial board. The NYT Letters section is where you mention "peak oil." That venue will help get that term out to the general public so that readers have a search term to hook onto. That said, not every letter should reference PO, otherwise certain readers (and the Times editors, too) will become resistant to the message.

    More important, I suggest one or two or more TOD EDITORS write a joint letter of "official" comment to The Times. Then sign it as the Editors, TheOilDrum.com. If it gets published (in print and/or online) the number of "media impressions" that will generate alone is worth more than a month of frustrating link farm prospecting.

    And, as I said in another post within the last ten days, blog participants should be doing more cross-posting of TOD articles or referencing/linking to TOD within related articles. That will both drive traffic and increase overall awareness.

    I feel the comment Will made about corporations just making a business decision is correct. I don't know anybody (personally, that is) that is even the least bit interested in this topic. I rarely post but I'm here just about every day and sometimes I wonder what it is about me that keeps bringing me back. Am I crazy or some sort of masochist? I'm really trying to figure this out lately.

    Perhaps you can explain why you think Will is correct that its just "business" ya know.

    The fact that you "feel" something is what you tell a doctor, but it does nothing for proving your statement about business are not conspiratorial.

    The word conspiracy has been turned into a term that makes it seem if you believe in a conspiracy, you must be a tin foil hat wearer.

    by the way if you put on a tin foil hat when they do beam microwaves at you. Bad idea. And yes they do beam microwaves at people, of all types, including new crowd control devices.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    People bury and rate down articles not based on the authors words but often on what the nutjobs say below.

    There is always an ongoing battle on this site from reasonable (pro vs con ethanol) to ludicrous (earthmarines and WTC 7) The site is not taken serious by "normal" middle class americans. I have explained PO to my coworkers, family and close friends and they get it. When they read TOD many have said to me that this site is weird.

    I think a lot of the articles are great but a lot of the posters are abrasive. PO is a geological problem, not a political one. PO mitigation on the other hand is political. Drop politics and conspiracy theories until the public gets the geology....their politics will follow.


    Oilrig medic,

    You really want to defend your statement that PO is geological problem and not a POLITICAL one. You sound very naive, and you put up arguments that are based not on facts but on personality and your opinion.

    Just on geology. OK, as soon as you get THE REAL NUMBERS for the reserves etc,. Then lets take politics and other above ground factors out of it. Until then, you are 100 percent incorrect imo on your waffling statement.

    Google PO and see how far down the page this site ranks.

    It now has some backing and appears at the top of the page in the paid for places it seems. If you look for the Oil drum in the ranking listings of google its not on the first page. What does that tell you. Yet Matt Savinors site appears usually as the first or second. THat place is full of conspiracy on its boards, so again why is conspiracy bad for a PO site. When the obvious evidence from hits that it does do better than a site that is less. And trust me. This site is mild pal.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    I made no statement about PO or a date. There is X amount of oil in the ground and eventually (or we already have) we will have extracted half of it. This is math.

    Oil production is affected by above ground factors. Oil in the ground is affected by sedimentation which takes millions of years and human extraction which takes little time at all in geologic terms.

    What did I waffle on BTW? I am saying comments by wackos on this site turn people off before they can learn anything about the science involved in energy production. Almost all the contributors put out GREAT articles, the chuckleheads that comment afterwards offend many people.

    ***Edit in response to your Edit****

    Matt Savinar is a chucklehead too. Being the highest rated PO site means nothing if less than 1% of americans know what it is. We need everyone to understand the concept. We need it to be taught in middle and highschool. We need MAINSTREAM americans to understand the science involved.

    Meanwhile the profiteer of doom turns off people to the concept of PO and americans don't take it serious.


    See you're wrong right off the bat Matt.

    We have used half of it. AND YOUR PROOF IS WHERE.

    Oil in the ground does include tar sands, shale, and other hard to access oil. Its in the ground Matt, and if you include it then we are no where near half used. So where is your math you claim proves this Matt. You said Math proves it. An oil exec is going to eat you alive with that statement as it stands.

    Wackos is an opinion Matt. I disagree with people and don't use that term. If the people you deal with get their information from television and the govt and think that other information is wrong etc, then they are a hopeless case and why waste time on lost causes, they are ADULTS. They love to throw it back at me, but come sit at my house and let met take you down a rabbithole Matt. I can't do it here, but o you will have to shake your head at what I can show you, and with evidence Matt. People like you that think the world is calm place with honest people are either naive, ego driven, or they are disinfo. There are those here Matt. They are at every single main board in the US.

    I suggest a dose of real life and turn off your TV, and learn a bit of physics and do some research on the situations of the day. Don't take a commission or govt or any report from any agency as fair and balanced. All have an agenda and its human nature. Its your job to find it or find others that have and then see what they have and weigh it. You obviously do little of that.

    Chucklheads, another endearing term for those that you disagree with. IS that how you sit around and discuss things as if you have all the answers Matt.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    Are you able to read? You are replying to things I have not written. I wrote that there is X amount of oil in the ground. I will let you count tar sands and shale too. At some point, I have not put a date out there, we will reach the halfway mark. It could have already happened, It may be 50 years from now. However at somepoint if you chug a beer you are halfway through.

    "People like you that think the world is calm place with honest people are either naive, ego driven, or they are disinfo" I was a soldier, I know the world is not calm. I am a paramedic know and I see the worst in society every day.

    "I suggest a dose of real life and turn off your TV, and learn a bit of physics and do some research on the situations of the day." WTF? I can whip you at physics I am sure and current events. You are not the only one here with an education

    I stand by my statements. The extremists here, including you irritate normal lurkers. You discredit the topic and drive people away.

    I am an extremist on what Matt. Because I don't let regulars here break the rules when they bring up topics that are discouraged and state their views on them as if they are gospel. You bet I am going to respond. I don't bring them up. I counter.

    You said the oil was HALF GONE in your post do you deny this Matt Half equals 50 percent. So change the goal posts, that what cowards do when they are caught.

    Half gone at some point. Again I ask you oil in the ground is all sources. Where is your proof that shale and sands and all the others in the future will be used. so again you make assumptions.

    Drive people away. Really Matt and again WHERE IS YOUR PROOF. I say that my statements here BRING MORE HERE, please disprove it. A statement from you is worth less than the air you breath.

    Please go babysit your lily white McMansion living SUV driving soccer moms and dads and shade them from reality.

    No offense, but if you really believe that the world you live in does not have its deep dark side, then you're a fool imo.

    If you have been coming to this site for years and think PO is about the amount in the ground. You have paid very very very little attention. Its you that make the case harder to prove Matt. your ignorance is showing.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    Again anyone is free to read all my above posts, LOL but I never said the oil is half gone. Learn to read then learn to put a sentence together in the correct tense and I will debate you and still win. You have been posting for 19 weeks I have for a year longer. I ride a bike to work and school. You don't know anything about me. And you are making yourself look foolish.

    PrisonerX, while I think your intentions are not evil, you have overposted in this thread--most them being polemics.

    Calm it down or go elsewhere.

    I ride a bike to work and school.

    How's that for an argument???

    PX, as a clown, your entertainment value is quite high. No wonder, with substantive original work (not you, PX) on this site, its credibility suffers.

    Hello Oilrig Medic,

    Your Quote: "We need everyone to understand the concept. We need it to be taught in middle and highschool. We need MAINSTREAM americans to understand the science involved."

    No doubt, but we have along way to go.

    I have posted much of what follows many times before, but here it is again for any newbies:

    One of my first Peakoil Outreach emails was to the National PTA years ago: hoping they would teach the concept--No reply.

    Another long ago email was to GOOGLE: asking them to put a "I'm Feeling Unlucky" button on the search homepage to reach most mainstream Americans. Again, no reply.

    Hundreds of other emails covering everything from asking Tiger Woods to lead the charge in plowing golf-courses, to simple requests like George Clooney merely attending ASPO conferences, to rock concerts being powered by pedaling fans. Again, no replies.

    I emailed my local newspaper, who in conjunction with GIOS [our leading infinite growth 'sustainability' research institution at Arizona State University] is providing business as usual pablum for the masses, asking them to prominently feature research and articles on Peakoil--No reply.

    It is just as Jay Hanson has so clearly explained on Dieoff.com: we are brain-wired in the aggregate as a species for detritus MPP and violence vs calm, thoughtful, proactive, early mitigation. We are almost compelled to run this race to its bitter end just as the reindeer on St. Matthews Island:


    MY hope and efforts go into 'Optimizing the Decline' when the world finally realizes all hope is lost. Zimbabwe will be seen as a piece of cake compared to what is coming soon postPeak with the Climate Change kicker. The Bottleneck Squeeze is inevitable, but I believe much can be done during the traverse to save some lives, some knowledge, and many species from extinction. It is not inevitable that we descend to the rock-bottom, lowest survival level of the Thermo/Gene Collision unless we all act truly stupid.

    I hope that my many postings in the TOD archives on Strategic reserves of bicycles & wheelbarrows, humanure recycling, Asimov's Foundation concepts of predictive collapse and directed decline, minitrains, SpiderWebRiding, the Earthmarine vs Merc dynamic, sequential building of biosolar habitats, and many other topics will be given greater consideration once the downslope is obvious.

    TOD has thousands of good suggestions, and when added to all the other websites and books out there: there is much that can be done to ameliorate the inevitable downslope blowbacks and speed the transition to the new and much less energetic biosolar ecologic equilibrium.

    The reindeer just starved to death in a winter of bitter cold and discontent, we humans can do much better than that if we have the will:

    Jay Hanson's Requiem:

    "If there is any hope at all, it is that people will come to understand the key systems in their world and then find the courage to make the hard decisions necessary for survival. We must find political means to abandon the competitive, consumptive social system -- or we shall perish."
    Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

    My present view of the situation is that we need to be ready with a credible plan--when it begins to dawn on most Americans that it is unlikely that we will experience an infinite rate of increase in our consumption of energy.

    Alan Drake has documented several case histories of regions developing and/or maintaining some degree of mobility with very little oil input--via Electrification Of Transportation (EOT).

    Perhaps I am a bit simplistic, but since the whole debate is about diminishing oil (and other fossil fuel) production and export capacity, shouldn't we base our plans on how people used to get around with minimal oil consumption and shouldn't we be pushing hard for wind and nuclear power, to keep the grid up?


    The Oil Drum is Geo-Politics.

    I have never measured an oil basin, I have never sat in on a meeting of politicians.

    Persuasive, and evidence. On a Web-site!!

    In a newspaper.




    We build our belief. Does it bubble?

    Imagine - if 'the drivin' chimp' were to walk. More energy on four than two.

    TOD is without doubt a 'noisy' site. I first started looking at it a couple of years ago, and if anything the noise level has increased (replies drumbeats get longer, more sidetracked etc etc). I am not sure that if I came to it now for the first time I would actually persevere. Since so many posters seem to hold trenchant views which they repeat ad-nauseum many of the oil drum threads often rapidly go down hill to my mind - so I now quickly pass over threads in which certain individuals are posting (I might add that these particular individuals often seem particularly grumpy and rude, as well as being overly dogmatic). Instead I now look for contributions from names I have come to associate with higher quality discourse (RR, Westexas, Euan, Dave Cohen, Stuart, Kebab, Ace, to name some that come immediately to mind) but even then when one of them starts a thread it may often then be hi-jacked by someone out of far left field. So I think the problem we have with getting a higher exposure is as much to do with the amount of chaff that is increasingly thrown up.

    Yes AndyH,

    It is much easier to have people delve into your belief system and have them look to you for information etc when you control the flow. Polish up your web police badge will you, hows that for rude, but its true, you just don't like it.

    Hi-jack = against my believes and my control

    Chaff = information you disagree with, its an opinion.

    someone out of left field = people that disagree with you not allowed in your control situation heh Andy.

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    A fly is cast, and a fish rises........

    LOL I rest my case


    such a snide little remark and backed up by squat. You rest your case like you did something besides make that comment. LOL please take me to a site and lets debate 9-11 I will go first and then you explain or counter me.

    Please Andy,

    lets see you fish or cut bait hmmm,

    Quid Clarius Astris
    Ubi Bene ibi patria

    But, my ego!

    I could have written crap for years in small notebooks, wich would have hit the landfill, after I croaked.


    I bet on the next blockbuster.

    Antagonise. Grow a pube.

    The education, qualification, weeding system has a purpose.

    Ask Yergin.

    Joel Spolsky had a good article on his blog about the usefulness of comments.


    Instead I now look for contributions from names I have come to associate with higher quality discourse

    As do I - but even more so from names I don't recognise in response.

    So the question is - how to tread the middle line?

    Are the names you mention:

    RR, Westexas, Euan, Dave Cohen, Stuart, Kebab, Ace

    Merely the voices with whom you agree most?

    The one's with whom you are inclined to agree with their analysis, even bofore reading the commentary? (excepting a couple who've a well deserved reputation for original research and analysis?)

    I left peakoil.com because the groupthink had become too prevalent.

    I have no answer, except that theoildrum, so far, in still resilient to both groupthink and viagara ads; and in the meantime seems to have been increasingly sought by industry and proxy-governmental studies...

    I have no answer how balance can be achieved between wackos and real contributions - I suspect that maximising one means having to deal with the other - and that a more 'background' approach leads to a more productive balance than trying to be the AOL of peak oil.

    My take: steady as she goes - the respect of the site has been building since I got here, and the community of both experts and lay-persons has grown - so who really cares about reddit and digg - it's working as best, and perhaps better, than could have been expected.

    I would also like to see more cross pollination with Newsvine. Newsvine is a link farm with user contributed articles as well as user created groups. The community there is generally more intelligent and thoughtful then most.
    There is a lot of good material published here and I think TOD articles would generate some excellent discussions.

    When going over there now to create a Peak Oil group right now. If someone has a nice image I can use as a group icon I'd really appreciate it.
    I'll seed a few TOD articles to the new group to get things started.

    Feel free to add me as a Newsvine friend. I'm WebWeasel over there too.

    BTW I've been a regular reader of The Oil Drum for a couple months now and I am impressed by the quality of posts and the level of knowledge of the posters and commentary here.

    Here's the trick: Use the word "Green" a lot. Green policy, green issues, green solutions, every solution should be a green solution.

    If you haven't noticed, green is the new buzz word. If you use the word green cleverly, you can use it to sell shoes, shirts, cars, houses, whatever.

    Nobody likes peak....who wants to be told they have reached their peak? They like green...look at the BP ads, even the gasoline retailers are green!

    Solar is selling on green, not on peak fears. Hybrids are selling on green, not on peak fears. Alan Drake, sell your train ideas on green, not on peak fears. They are even selling green skyscrapers now. Conde Naste pushes green travel....you hop on an airliner, but if you choose the right hip destination, your a green traveler!!

    Roger Conner Jr.
    And remember, we are only one green cubic mile from freedom! :-)

    I have been following TOD since its inception very closely. While it is true there are 'nutbar' posts and some of questionable relevance, this site remains relevant.

    This site IMHO is not for everyone and I am doubful it is a good vehicle for education of the general public. It is however a very good resource for those that can go out and educate. I am in a position to educate people in Commerce and MBA programs and the like on energy policy and the PO debate - I owe thanks to this site and others.

    I have turned some heads based on correct predictions, made possible largely because of my study of this site. It is this accuracy that won support for including PO debate explicitly in teaching materials. This is what TOD is to me about and TOD must continue to do what it does best - hard core analysis and no need to pull punches: there is a phrase I once read that is apt - "Unsanitized for your protection"

    The same thing happened to Matt Savinar just last night on Reddit. I came across some commentary from him on this thread: http://reddit.com/info/28cv8/comments

    I had already blogged the article in question hours before and wandered back over to realize that Matt was getting slammed by idiotic morons calling for genocide of the last Stone Age tribe in Africa.

    There seems to be a deliberate attempt to suppress certain news and commentary. I've seen this on my own blog and website many, many times.

    Oh man oh man, folks, if you have the time definitely check out the artile SA just referenced. There should be a special place in hell for the two UAE jackassses in the article.

    The folks who are cheering it on at reddit.com and others should have there own special place also.

    A couple of suggestions:

    1) Go through the archives, and find articles in mainstream publications and websites that pointed to TOD (or Peak Oil In general), re-approach the authors to get them to take another look at the new data and publish a new article on the subject.

    For example, Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly did a series of articles a while back, it's probably not too soon to bring up the subject again in that forum.

    2) Produce some 'spec' articles for publication in mainstream media. These could even be a group effort, with a core of vetted peak-oil information collected here, then skinned with a narrative impedance-matched to the publication. For example, the political aspects could be used as the 'hook' for publication on Huffington Post.

    Let's face it, these guys have pages to fill before they sleep, and the worst they can do is say no.

    Rolling stone carried Kunstler (well, he has an "in"), and we've seen articles in Scientific American and National Geographic, so it's not like this subject is tabboo...

    3) Produce a "Peak Oil Fact book" i.e. a resource guide with a brief introduction, followed by facts and quotations ready to cut and paste into locally produced articles. The idea is to hand publishers something they can look at, then hand to a reporter and say "Give me 500 words on how this affects (_____________)"

    4) A few years back, a new website sent out my paper airplane designs in a press packet, and it was picked up in publications worldwide. I don't know how much such a press release (It included mailing to thousands of papers) costs,
    but I'd be happy to toss a sawbuck or two in a tip jar for such an undertaking.

    The issue is a struggle.

    How many people have read this !?

    Quantitative - is barrels/day. Conversion factor?

    After many years, if my wage prescribed it, I would look away now!

    Bitter people with axes to grind?

    I got my eye on you, Bill!