That's a very provocative theory. The timing sure seems right. I can think of any number of interested parties that would benefit from such a subterfuge. Hmmmm.

I put this in yesterday's drum beat.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2398#comment-172381

It's an idea I have had for a little while now.

.........

First, What would be the worlds reaction if Saudi Arabia has actually peaked? What would happen to the $USD ?

What would happen to the ruling princes in SA if everyone knew they were in decline? What country do you think they would "Visit" for an extended stay?

ALL VERY VERY HIGH STAKES GAMES wouldn't you agree?
What do you think the motivational factor would be for the US/Saudi Arabia to "Prolong" them NOT Peaking?

With that in mind, Lets look at these stories.

From Leanan's story above.

Mystery of the Missing Meters:
Accounting for Iraq's Oil Revenue

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14427

Heavily armed soldiers spend their days at the oil terminals scanning the horizon looking for suicide bombers and stray fishing dhows (boats). Meanwhile, right under their noses, smugglers are suspected to be diverting an estimated billions of dollars worth of crude onto tankers because the oil metering system that is supposed monitor how much crude flows into and out of ABOT and KAAOT - has not worked since the March 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq.

A few days ago there was a story in Drumbeat about a pipeline coming online between Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

Halliburton did all the pipeworks right?

Officials blame the four-year delay in repairing the relatively simple system on "security problems." Others point to the failed efforts of the two U.S. companies hired to repair the southern oil fields, fix the two terminals, and the meters: Halliburton of Houston, Texas, and Parsons of Pasadena, California.

...Rumors are rife among suspicious Iraqis about the failure to measure the oil flow. "Iraq is the victim of the biggest robbery of its oil production in modern history," blazed a March 2006 headline in Azzaman, Iraq's most widely read newspaper. A May 2006 study of oil production and export figures by Platt's Oilgram News, an industry magazine, showed that up to $3 billion a year is unaccounted for.

After the 2003 invasion, the meters appear to have been turned off and there have since been no reliable estimates of how much crude has been shipped from the southern oil fields

When the US went into Bagdad, all buildings were unsecured(musuems, public works, etc) but NOT the ministry of Oil. That building was secured day 1.

I believe No oil gets missing in southern Iraq with out US/Halliburton/Blackwater knowing about it and being in on the take.

If Iraq went up or down in production a few 100k NO ONE would notice and not lift an eyeball.

How about if 300k - 1 mil barrels sort of disappeared, givin the about article's info, would you believe it? How about if those barrels found their way into some 33 million barrel storage facility somewhere?

Someone could report higher or lower production at their descression a little bit more often.
How long could say you were cutting back, but still have inventory rising for a few weeks/months.

I put forth the possiblity of US/SA gaming the system of production reporting with a slush fund of 100k - 1mil barrels per day.

SA could look good for a lot longer perhaps?

Did anyone see the article of the pipeline between Iraq/SA a day or so ago?

I think they have peaked.

Anyway, I'll take off my tinfoil hat. Just a wild idea.

That's probably the first time that visuals of TOD and Stuart's work in particular have appeared on TV. (Although anonymously)

Great segment, though. (and great tie!)

Where do they dredge up these cornucopian lemmings. "They have a plan...." (big brother will look after us). "It will never run out..." (as in we will be driving gasoline powered cars forever).

The report uses the word theory but it is clear that is not in the scientific but colloquial sense. So peak oil is merely an idea and not a certainty. The denial is rampant. Do these people think their bank accounts will last forever if they have no income? There is no oil being created in quantities that fill up the reserves so depletion is as certain as death.

I do not think this report is balanced and objective. If the reporter took the subject seriously they would research the depletion rates and production declines in major fields and producing regions instead of parading some twits off the street to bleat their completely uninformed opinions. This is circus reporting (we have/create two sides so lets see them fight) and not journalism.

Thanks for that link, wow.

It was that realization that 'hooked' me on TOD ... now trying to achieve a motivation level sufficient to actually change my way of life ...

First post: Comment on Michael Ervin's “rebuttal” (CBC Ottawa)

As a newbie on PO (been reading here for a couple of weeks) I just wanted to check if I've understood this correctly:

Michale Ervin's response to imminent PO (my italics and numbers in brackets):

“With more fuel efficient cars, perhaps the trend towards smaller cars – all of these, [1]from a demand point of view are going to likely reduce the rate of crude oil consumption. That along with new discoveries of crude oil reserves and newer more efficient ways of extracting those resources from the earth are going to be additional factors that will [2]likely continue to push that peak oil date further and further into the future”

There is a logical black hole here. How can controlled diminishing of demand do much to postpone an imminent peak of production. I thought that effiency measures were the less destructive way of dealing with a post peak/plateau scenario. Of course a slower demand growth (e.g because of effiency increase) can "blunt" the peak somewhat but I thought that only higher oil production could postpone an imminent peak.

If I'm on the wrong foot here please point it out (gently). And bear with me for my second-language attempts...

I think, essentially by shifting the discovery curve to coincide with the production curve. The maximum of production was predicted to follow the maximum of discoveries with a delay apprx 30 -40 years (not by HL !)

The very very short answer: Hubbert recognized that oil production curves, like many natural phenomena, follow a classic bell-curve. Without getting into the minutiae of pipelines, drilling, politics, or economics (though Hubbert was certainly aware of these factors), he developed an analysis technique now known as Hubbert Linearization, which worked well in the days of slide rules and paper graphs.

Hubbert predicted a peak in production around 1970 for the US 48 states (yes there were 48 when he announced his finding), and in about 50 years for the world. That was in 1956; 50 years from then is now.

Marco,
I don't know, and I wondered that myself. Looking at the contradictory answers from Gilles and DIYer, it seems that it is not common knowledge.

Along these lines, I've wished to bring up a related topic (in my mind).

How do weather/hurricane forecasters model the future?

How do ecological biologists model the future?

There are comparisons to be made here since we are looking at large sets of data, not set in a controlled environment, and all variables that effect our question are not always known.

Weather forecasters and ecologists have had success in modelling the future by detecting patterns in the mounds of data .

Why can't some of their techniques be applied to global petroleum questions?

And the endless squabbling over the question of whether Metro to Dulles in DC will be above or below ground in Tysons continues on. The tunnel proponents have a fixed-cost bid from Dragados (the company that dug the chunnel) which is actually cheaper than the cost estimates for the above-ground option, and would actually be completed sooner.

In the meantime Bechtel is under pressure from the Metropolitan Airports Commission - Bechtel has been told that their price is too high and is putting the entire project in danger.

I guess the thing that bugs me the most about the Bechtel deal is the secrecy involved in the whole thing. They had a story about this in the WaPo yesterday:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/22/AR200703...

A state law intended to bring big-ticket road and rail projects to fruition quickly and cheaply also grants the parties involved an unusual level of secrecy in their negotiations. The lack of transparency could make it difficult to evaluate the financial risks that accompany such complex public works, such as cost overruns and scheduling delays, some local officials and critics say.

Secrecy is not the only issue surrounding the Public-Private Transportation Act of 1995. The law was designed to jump-start expensive road and transit projects by attracting private-sector investment and corporate efficiency to the process. It allows the state to dispense with traditional competitive bidding and select a single private partner to design and build a project for a fixed price and profit.

It hasn't quite worked that way. The private contractor, Dulles Transit Partners -- a construction consortium of Bechtel Inc. and Washington Group International -- has put no money into construction of the extension's first phase, which would run from just east of the West Falls Church Metro station to Wiehle Avenue in Reston by 2012. The consortium will be reimbursed for the $15 million it has spent on preliminary engineering work if it reaches an agreement with the state.

Here's what he wrote at the end of his paper:

The giant oil field model is based on past annual production, URR and three different assumed decline rates. The results from the modeling of 333 giant fields are used in combination with the other forecasts in order to predict future oil production. Four different scenarios have been modeled and peak oil governed by the giant oil fields is a common result for the scenarios. The worst case scenario shows a peak in 2008, while the best case peaks in 2013 although at a higher production level. The production in the best case scenario increases more rapidly than a future demand growth of 1.4 per cent. Therefore the production can be adjusted to follow the demand growth, resulting in a postponed peak oil to 2018. Thus, global peak oil will occur in the ten year span between 2008 and 2018.

I just read an article posted above that suggest demand growth is probably more like 2 per cent, which would imply that the best-case forecast of peak in 2018 may be very optimistic.

-best,

Wolf

Wow.

I just gave that paper a quick scan, and it is a superb collection and presentation. I highly recommend it to all TOD readers.

P.S. I'd really love to read papers of similar quality and rigor on solar, wind and nuclear. - links please!

The report ”Giant Oil Fields – The Highways to Oil” is an EXCELLENT, well researched, referenced and documented report. The report uses thorough bottom-up analyses, which I have always believed to be the best approach to obtain estimates of the PEAK.

Hopefully it (the report) might become a valuable source of reference for future discussions on TOD.
……..

I noticed especially the figures 7.3 and 7.4 showing declining deepwater discoveries recently that now doesn’t replace production.

The report handles the uncertainties of the decline rates in a thorough way. Decline rates are hard to predict and will influence future growth (if any) and the down slope from the peak.

The other hard to predict factor is the economical lifetime of the fields, which affects the overall decline, a minor influence though it still affects production capacities negatively.

What also caught my attention was the growth in NGL’s /Natural Gas Liquids, mainly ethane, propane, butane) production. Most NGL originates from gas fields, and gas to NGL ratio normally increases (for gas fields) with time, that is the gas becomes drier.

Looking on the data on NGL production from IEA, reported NGL production in
Russia (a high in 2004/2005 of 0,457 Mb/d and since been in steep decline)
USA (a high in 2000 of 1,911 Mb/d and since slightly declined (due to declining nat gas production?))
Canada (a high in 2003 of 0,724 Mb/d and since in a slight declining trend)
Mexico (a high in 2004 of 0,442 Mb/d and since in a slight declining trend)

These 4 countries totalled approx 41 % of world NGL production in 2006 averaging 7,94 Mb/d, which could suggest a challenge for the growth in NGL towards a world total 10 Mb/d assumed in the report.

My $0,02.

Best
NGM2 (in Norway)

I looked at the paper and agree that it is a good one.

I noticed that E. Mearns on one of his TOD postings is listed in the references at the end of the paper.

A minor issue - If I am understanding the author correctly (and I may not be), he is using the same production figures from the Canadian oil sands (p.104) and the Venezuela heavy oil (p. 107) in all four of his scenarios. The projected growth in production in these two locations, are, from his own descriptions, optimistic. It would seem like this will be adding a small bias toward later peaking to the calculations.

If the speculation in the spiegel article is correct and genetic engineering is the cause this problem will get much worse before it gets better. Genetic engineering is a sacred cow and there will be no retreat before we all starve. And of course many modified genes are loose in the fields and are not subject to recall. Doom short and sweet. We shall see.

"Peak Bees" lol. Even catchier than "colony collapse".

Perhaps the article should have read: "The service people were transferred to the Iranian capital to act a human shield for The Ayatollah when AHBL next month...

CW
Global peak: 2007 - 2010
Global decline rate, Post peak: 2%
Economic response: Severe global recession, ~5 years, then slow recovery

Yes, you have it right. I bought my first oil futures contract in 2004. It was a dec 2007 contract for $39. If I sold it today, the profit would be $28,000. Not bad for $4,000 invested. The oil market only "works" for the close in months. Oil future investors have not factored in peak oil so they treat oil like corn or pork bellies. The conventional wisdom is broken so it is a great time to get into the 2011 and 2012 contracts.

Here is a record of my thinking

If you're interested in gasoline prices, there are futures for that too:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/fc?s=RBK07.NYM

These are wholesale prices, you have to add about 50-60 cents per gallon to get the retail price. Basically the markets are forecasting gas prices to fall steadily from today's highs, for the rest of the year.

And yes, I do think these prices can be interpreted as predictions of future prices. You can contract today to deliver or receive gasoline at those future dates at those prices. If the market consensus was that gas was going to be very different from those prices, people could take arbitrage positions to profit on the difference, which would result in the difference disappearing.

Now maybe if you go far out in years you can argue that there are other effects occuring, risk aversion and such, but over the next few months it should be pretty accurate. At this point the markets do not seem to be predicting higher gas prices this summer (higher than today).

That same paper is referenced earlier in this thread, as well as yesterday's Drumbeat.

This is an excellent summary of statements that I whole-heartedly agree with. You need to give it a name and market it.

Call it something like The Constitution of POA (Peak Oil Acceptance) or something.

EXCELLENT^2, and I agree!!

May I borrow it, translate it into Norwegian and post it on the Norwgian blog "Kveldssong for hydrokarbonar" where I regurarly contribute?

Again Thx a lot.

NGM2

This is brilliant - simultaneously comprehensive and succinct. I suspect it precisely mirrors the conclusions of many TODdlers. It certainly expresses mine perfectly. I'd like permission to repost it on my site (with attribution and a link back here, of course).

I believe in two additional levels of problem solving. Governmental and "across community".

I expect my local state to do sane investments and law adjustments following the economical changes. And I expect the municipiality level of government to do good post peak oil city planning and investments. This has been done before when our society has been challanged by change and its being done right now, not as fast as I would like but lots of things are being done.

With across community I mean that good ideas and solution will spread extremely fast across internet.

Preferably 20 years of "undulating plateu" with or withouth shaky economy while "the writing is on the wall" and we will be set for a very long post peak oil era in Sweden and probably the other nordic countries.

Pretty much my view too. Good job. I'm going to save this and revisit it down the road....

Thanks for your thoughts. I wasn't particularly amused or entertained, but I was interested and intrigued. What you believe will happen may well come to pass. It's hard to tell though at this stage in the "game". The lack of solid data from Saudi Arabia is frustrating and unnerving at the same time. I believe we'll see the political/economic fallout from peak oil years before actually begin to see the effects of falling supply. One could argue that the presence of a large american army in the Middle East is an example of this development.

I believe were in for a period of instability and you may well be correct about severve disruption to society resulting from an economic depression.

I'm not so sure about the solutions, if there are any, will come from individuals or communities though. I think this implies a drastic economic slowdown doesn't it? I suppose it hinges on what one understands by "community". How big is your concept of community? Is it a community on an Alaskan scale or a community in China?

I believe we may be seeing the return of something like fuedalism or perhaps a pre-industrial form of economic and social organisation. I think one can descern a post-democratic, pre-enlightenment, shadow spreading through our political system. Supreme leaders who are no longer primarily answerable to people, but instead choose to rule by recourse to their own feelings, conscience, or God. God will be their judge, not the electorate at the end of the day. It's almost like the devine right of kings to rule because the position is sanctified by the almighty.

Anyway enough of my thoughts and thank you for yours.

Unless you’re trying to start a religion, take out the term ’believe’.

1. I believe that light sweet crude production peaked several years ago - probably in the 2000 era. This is mostly a refining issue, and one that can be fixed with sufficient investment in existing refineries to process available grades.
Very misleading and/or very not true. Light sweet crude is either available, read: extracted, or it’s not, it has nothing to do with refining. You can build refineries, but they can’t turn heavy crude into light crude. They can or cannot process heavy crude, but that’s not the issue.

2. I believe Deffreys was probably right about the peak of C+C production being the fall of 2005. Since C+C is the overwhelming single component of all liquids production, and it is now in decline, we entered the bumpy plateau at about the same time.
Bumpy plateau? Anything more than an assumption? Maybe, but in any case, you haven’t defined it. Hence, not a statement you want in some kind of declaration. Who knows what that means, except for the 0.001% that reads TOD? You mention it more often, and you will have to either define and prove it, or take it out. If not, anyone could tear you to bits.

3. I believe that the first crossover event, where demand bumped up against available supply, ocurred in 2005. We had a round of price increases that resulted in demand destruction. Prices continued to climb into 2006 based on market momentum. The new floor of $60 was established. I define "bumping up against available supply" to mean that surplus capacity dropped to an unacceptably low level.
As recent experience with KSA/OPEC cuts shows, it’s dangerous to think prices are set by market mechanisms or momentum. The Saudi/Iraq pipeline issue discussed here is another factor, and there’ll be more. You can’t reliably use world oil prices as proof for anything at all, other than: there’s no free market.

4. I believe that 2006 was an unusually quiet year as far as energy issues went.
Go tell that story in Africa.

10. I believe that 2007 will witness another crossover event, and we will see a large increase in prices, another round of demand destruction. A new, higher support level will be established for prices. I would guess that this would be in the $80 range.
Believe and guess, huh? It gets vaguer by the minute. Anything can be a crossover event. Empty term, unless defined.

12. I believe, based on the above and bottom-up analysis such as the Megaprojects list, that the bumpy plateau will be relatively short. We will begin to drop off it as soon as 2010. Above-ground factors could accelerate that.
Above-ground factors could just as well decelerate that. Empty words.

13. I believe that the result in industrialized nations will be a series of crossover events, of increasing amplitude and frequency. Since there is probably some minimum time that the market needs to accomodate a spike in prices with demand destruction, the events will eventually merge into a fairly continuous process. This will look like a super-inflation (not quite hyper-inflation) in energy prices. Perhaps on the order of 30%-40% per year, compounded.
Let’s see the proof. Oil prices may go down 30-40%. Above-ground factors.

14. I believe that demand destruction sufficient to match the decline rate past the bumpy plateau will require an ever-deepening recession/depression that eventually reaches economic collapse.
The depression has already started. Peak oil will be a non-factor. You got things the wrong way around.

15. I believe that when economic collapse finally occurs worldwide that consumption will drop sharply, and create a cushion of surplus capacity, even as production continues to decline.
To quote Dmitri Orlov: "An economy does not collapse into a black hole from which no light can escape. Instead, something else happens: society begins to spontaneously reconfigure itself, establish new relationships, evolve new rules, in order to find a point of equilibrium at a lower rate of resource expenditure." Prices will drop. The spin will be that "the crisis is over" and "good times are just around the corner".
Be careful with Orlov quotes. You make him look optimistic here. He’s not. “Society begins to spontaneously reconfigure itself?” How many deaths would it take to make that look ridiculous?

16. I believe the Peak Oil is only one of the major challenges facing industrial civilization. As serious as it is, history may record it as an "also-ran". In America they are, in temporal order: recession, natural gas shortages, peak oil, collapse of the economy, collapse of the political order, climate change. Other nations will have a somewhat different order of occurrance based on their particular circumstances.
Wrong order. And you forget warfare. Which is a necessary component in man’s reaction to deteriorating circumstances.

17. I believe that we are not tens of years away from these things, but (perhaps several) tens of months. That before the lumbering political system, which includes the corporatocracy, can be pressed into action we will reach a point, again to quote Dmitri Orlov, where "No long-term planning [is] possible. Large new projects [are] not even considered.".
The politico/economic system is way ahead of you. It can’t afford to react, it needs to act. That is its nature. To obtain or hold on to power, you have to pre-empt. Make, not let, things happen. The US is well on its way to enforced demand destruction, Why do you think all those homeowners were pushed to get so deep into debt?

Green Man,

Regarding your “I believe” statements no.15

15. I believe that when economic collapse finally occurs worldwide that consumption will drop sharply, and create a cushion of surplus capacity, even as production continues to decline.

I find this interesting. This scenario carries with it the prospect of declining prices as it describes a situation with higher supplies than demand.

This would make abovground factors like economics “kick in” for expensive off shore production, tar sands (and possible somer others), thus accelerating declines in production (reducing supply), leaving cheaper production (like within OPEC) economical, thus further shifting the supply power to the producers with low OPEX.

Alternatively governments may step in to avoid increased reliance on imports.

Care to share your thoughts? Or anyone else

NGM2

Very well put. I take these as general statements and assumptions that are considered likely, but not necessarily certainly, to come to pass. In that sense, I could not agree more.

Very good set of points ! A few minor quibbles.

#17 in particular. Salt Lake City has the best (tied by Miami) long term Urban Rail plan. Several years into a 30 year plan with current financing. They are talking about tripling the dedicated taxes to speed the building of this comphrensive plan.

Please note that SLC is dominated by a religon that also advises their faithful to store 1 years worth of food. Perhaps there is a connection ?

I think that in the early stages of Post-Peak Oil there will be pressure to build out existing plans ASAP.

Miami has plans for 103 miles of elevated "subway type" Urban Rail. 20 miles open, 3 miles under construction ATM. Building another 30 miles in 5 years is "doable" IMHO.

Best Hopes,

Alan

Oddly, those are the 18 things I believe.

Thanks.

Light sweet crude peaked in 2004. Even Freddy and CERA acknowledge this.

Ghawar Is Dying
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function. - Dr. Albert Bartlett

See the thread further up about Iraq's oil, SA and missing oil.

I would agree that it is a very worthwhile paper. Talks about the fact that a mixture of plants creates more biomass than an individual species (such as switchgrass), without all of the fossil fuel inputs. Also shows that a mixture of grasses can actually be "carbon-negative" - that is, sequester carbon from the atmosphere.

With stories that good there is no OT

if people get the itch to escape the cities, I believe they are going to find rural life different from their expectations.

What it comes down to is a different skill set. And developing different instincts.

The chunks of my life spent in a rural setting are treasured times.

If one can avoid the temptation to have a garden it runs a lot smoother! A city dweller would have to put a sign on his lawn like "Unlimited Free Beer. All welcome" to get an idea of what you are up against!

Todd,

Would like to ask if you process the usuable carcasses?
Bear was once prized as meat. I have eaten bear meat and what I had was quite good once I got past the smell(different).

In Hawaii wild pig were favored by the locals as well. They hunted them in the hills with dogs and large knives.

So having some predators might be a sort of blessing in the future as a source of protein.

Today I turned my gardens. Two this time to be better prepared.Deer are my problems. I could easily dress and store at least 2 dozen white tails a year. Summer and winter. This means meat will not be a problem in the future. Wild turkeys are becoming very plentiful and I now see many flocks. Just a few months ago I had to stop in the blacktop while at least 80 of them(many jakes) slowly crossed in front of my jeep.

When I was row cropping I was allowed to shoot any animal that was foraging on my crops. I was not supposed to process them but instead call the game warden. Well that just wouldn't work so I ended up just firing buckshot at the deers and finally getting some Jack Russells.

For those who think this year might be a significant event, its time gardens were being developed. I had a huge carryover last year and have a years worth of canned jars at least. This year I am shooting for two to three years of supplies(tomatoes,green beans,corn,beans and so on). I am also going to be laying in a very large supply of kerosene(we called it coal oil back when). I have a lot of old kerosene lamps and some aladdins. AFAIK kerosene does not degrade to any degree. I also have a 300 gal fuel tank in my pole barn that I can fill with diesel. I have kept diesel for over two years with little problems as long as the tractor filters are kept clean. When I get some money ahead I intend to by a few good mules and some tack. Get back into my blacksmithing past and learn how to finally forge weld.

I will be saving a 500 gal propane tank for canning in the future. I cook with a lpg stove as it is already.

My well and nearby springs are all I need for good water.

I don't have a mule so I used a buddies IH 806 with a 10 foot wheel disk to lightly work the top ground. Next a chisel plow and then planting time.

Its 85 degrees here in my part of Ky and its still the 3 week in March. Unreal. Most just shrug it off. They don't get climate change. The oldtimers would have been talking about nothing else for weeks while chawing a lot of tobacco and ruminating about the 'signs' and so forth.

I just returned from 4 weeks in N. Carolina near Raleigh. I must say that everyone I saw was a dead man walking. It was surreal after my long time away from the burbs. I went to many shopping malls. The one that blew me away was Crossroads in Cary. The Ford dealership there must have at least 20 or 30 classic Ford cars from the 40's on. Unbelievable. Their showroom was massive. The lifestyle I had been away from was very hard for me to envision as viable by any stretch of the imagination.

I intend to return very rarely , if at all. Yes 5 mbps on a cable modem was great but I like the slower lifestyle of my dialup,in that I have to make my time count. Having 300 channels of TV with almost no real content was jarring. Having to run to the shopping malls or stores two or three times a day was unsettling as well. Like I said,,,all walking dead.

Another snippet of country life.

No bears but some reported sighting of 'painters'. Eagle are around. Lots of wildcats. Many coyotes and of course wild turkey which are very very tasty.If one can learn to camo up and hunt wild turkey then for sure no blackguard types are going to be able to sneak up on you in the woods. At times turkeys act really dumb but most of the time they are extremely hard to come up on.

Airdale..telling it like I think it is. Others have different stories. I am sticking with mine.

Leanan beat ya to it.

Check with REI. www.rei.com

In fact I don't know, but I'll throw out a notion so it can be shot down or honed...

Pool chlorine, which is pretty much calcium hypochlorite I think, can be bought in quantity for pool maintenance. Seems like if used to treat drinking water, it would go a long way. Obviously you'd want to get stuff without algaecides.

Is this a dumb idea? Anyone?

TrueKaiser

Have done well 'shock on og' in the past and this might be of interest there:

http://www.water-research.net/shockwelldisinfection.htm

For chlorination of water this might be what you are after:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/environ/chlor_e.html

and for a cheap solution to getting the chlorine out of the water so tea doesn't taste foul we use a Brita:

http://www.shopbrita.com/index.asp

BTW, I lost my temper with RR in 'comments on' his HL article, I have a hothead streak hard to subdue. Would anyone who read my comments let me know if they were out of line, that would be appreciated. Without knowing a lot of background on site I have possibly misinterpreted the situation? On line or e-mail.